I think he was referring to killing the innocent, the Stormtroopers are close to mind-washed killers at this point. I'd have to see it again, but I think he said that he wouldn't kill for the First Order, rather than killing is wrong.

We'll see with later movies if Disney can make them good, they needed to set up the next two, I'll admit they could have done it better but, if the same thing happened to VII that happened to I/II, it would most likely ruin VIII and IX at least, and maybe even the spin-offs. This way VIII and IX will have a chance to be great.

After the hype dies down, I can't see it holding up long term which is a disappointment because the new characters are all likeable
  ...at least on a human level anyway, I think Rey's too much of a superhero tbh. Stupendous pilot, genius mechanic/engineer, amazingly quick to pick up the force, she even invents the Jedi Mindtrick haha, able to best someone who must have 20 years (half with Luke, half with a Sith Lord) more training, knowledge and experience in the force and general lightsaber combat. She's basically at the point Luke was between ESB and ROTJ, I'm not sure a little bit of training from Luke as a little kid can really explain that.

The new characters, likeable?

These are the same main characters I watched?

Killing is bad guys/watch me kill my former brothers (are you seein' this?)
We are being followed by my former brothers, lets kill them using poison gas while we hide in the floor...

Poe is alright when he is not using an aimbot.

Everything to do with the Starkiller I felt was dumb... does it move? Were there two stars in the system originally and it already sucked up all it's energy? They shot at the republic (was that Coruscant? Who knows, no one seemed to give a crap!) and destroyed multiple worlds. Outside of the statement that the republic is "supporting" the Rebels, it's the only mention of them. What is the current state of the galaxy and why are "rebels" fighting and not the republic in full?  Also another thermal exhaust port... I mean heat vibration dampener thing.   As jackroy said, what happened to the "fleet"? We saw and heard of no "fleet" except it being destroyed... why was Ackbar (sounded and looked a bit like Ackbar, they called him Admiral, was it Ackbar?) not with the fleet?

This. It's ok that they started a new franchise for millennials. It's ok that they skip all this stuff in the launch of a new franchise, just like Ep:IV, you'll figure it out as you go along.
It's not OK to then call this Episode VII, like its the next chapter in the star wars saga. You can't do both- either continue the story or don't.

We are told, not shown of the disastrous end of the Jedi Academy and the rise of the First order.
No details.
Contrast this with EP:IV which established that the Empire was the authority, diplomacy existed, there exists a senate which will not stand for injustice, the Empire was consolidating power through its super weapon and then the Imperial senate was dissolved offscreen- leaving only the Empire itself in direct control of the galaxy.

Continuing Luke's story, starting us 5 years ago at the Jedi academy where our happily married lovers Han and Leia are dropping in to address concerns that their son is harboring dark thoughts, meanwhile Leia is called away to address an Imperial remnant gathering power...

Covering any of the plot points that must have happened in the meantime would have made for a more interesting story.

She is staggeringly bad at her job. She sees the eventual traitor wigging out and does nothing. Her one job is supposedly to keep these brainwashed soldiers in line.
I've heard her best described as a 'shiny pokemon'.

I was all WTF too.
I disagree that the fights were good. In the battle at the lake, an X wing (probably poe) swoops down towards the lake, blasts a tie (fine) but as he pulls back to head skyward, kills two more. No targeting, no tracking, just sweet swoopy moves and wickedsick combos.

The stormtroopers seem to fight as a disorganised mess of individuals rather than the professional soldiers we are shown at the start. Looked like a bad FS game tbh, or battlefront.

TR8R, whilst being cheesy nonsense, was entertaining cheesy nonsense and showed a skill and drive absent from the main villains. Got indiana jones'd, but thats what happens when you drop your blaster rather than simply blast the unarmoured (but plot armoured) Finn to atoms with your rifle.

They were.. ok. There is a reason Luke didn't duel Vader in Ep:IV, he simply couldn't have. I thought they were setting KyleLauren up to be a +1 sithlord with him freezing the blastershot and all, but he is handily dispatched by a strong independent woman with no training.
Had she let go, and the force flowed through her, and been guided by the spirits of Ben, Anikan and Luke's telepathy, no-one would have a problem with her winning against a bloody dark jedi.

I reckon so too, but that's us speculating wildly and apologising for the film. It should have shown us this, a literal force awakening, with stuff starting to move in the room as they psychically duelled, and Lukes voice calling to her to stay strong and keep the faith etc...

have a music video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgOF1jQbTns

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comme … on_in_tfa/

Apparently, according to the books released about TFA, Starkilller base moves, and the reason Han and Finn could see the planets being destroyed is because *hand wave* hyperspace reasons *hand wave*
Shouldn't need to read books tho to get an explanation. If such an important plot point requires extra material you need to 'go home and rethink your  ...plot'

The score is actually okay, but there is nothing "memorable". The only things which actually stood out were the OT themes, as said before.

For the superweapon firing and everything around it I still find nonsensical. They use the term "lightspeed" a lot more than any other SW film, I'm guessing that "Lightspeed" and "Hyperspace" are interchangeable... moving at light speed it would still take FOREVER to travel around.  I figured that as the weapon fires through hyperspace, that's why Han saw it as it was near a Hyperspace route? I never got the feeling that they were in the same system(if there's a source stating otherwise, please correct me). Yes, we see the planets blow up from wherever Han is but I'm going to put that down to the direction as opposed to them making sense.

The Republic "Fleet" seemed to be about a dozen bland tiny blips, looked more like merchant ships or something, so I'm still dissatisfied with that. Later on the rebels refer to their 2/3 starfighter wings as their "Fleet", which feels like a massive misuse of the term.

On the rewatch again it looks like Kylo gets his hand or at least a limb cut off in one scene, but in the next cut we see him with both hands.  I was paying specific attention this time and it did not look like part of his outfit or anything.  Looking forward for clarification on that front.

Defo convinced that Ray is of Skywalker lineage. A younger Solo or a Skywalker, but defo a relation. There's just something super weird about the meeting she has with Leia + that lightsaber stuff.  Bandus theory of a mind wipe of some time I think has merit.

Regarding Ray kicking pie with a Lightsaber, remember that Ren has just been shot with the Bowcaster. The bowcaster we saw Han go "woa" to and blow things to pieces multiple times in the movie. They were making a point in saying that that thing was powerful and Ren was still able to put up a decent fight after being hit by it dead on. At the point he got overpowered was when he had his guard slightly lowered as he did the "join the dark side" stuff too, not sure he was expecting such a ferocious counter attack to come from the opponent he'd pretty much already beaten.  The next fight we see from him I think will be a lot better.

Though of course we might not need to wait that long, I suppose the first standalone film Rogue One will also give us a good indicator of what can be done in the Star Wars universe with a totally original plot and no Lucas involvement.

I also think that this backseat Lucas involvement with new artists moving forward with Star Wars formula is what made The Clone Wars so great. With him basically schooling the team on how to make Star Wars in the beginning, and then just letting them get on with it, and just offering additional guidance if it is asked for.

I guess time will tell when we see the rest of the Star Wars material Lucasfilm and Disney have planned get released.

As for the escape scene I just watched it a few hours ago and the First Order bridge crew said their turbo-lasers had been destroyed after the escaping fighter fired on those two turrets. I'm quite certain now that ship was not an Imperial-class star destroyer.

In the end I think that they way Lucas had written the story for star wars movies will be very different from the way Disney is going to write the stories, it might take some getting used to.

Bandu wrote:

I think Rey is a Skywalker. Luke's saber 'called out' to her and well, just based on Daisy, a near Keira Knightly (Padme double in the PT) clone, she looks like one. (Part of the reason I was sure Kylo was a Solo was because Adam Driver kind of looks a bit like a little bit longer faced Harrison Ford).
It doesn't appear that she's Kylo's sister, as I thought beforehand, so it only leaves Luke. Maybe Leia had her after she and Han split, tho you'd think Leia would sense it. It'd make poetic sense that the only person who could find a Skywalker was a Skywalker, plus I can't see the New Trilogy centering on a non Skywalker.
Whatever her lineage, it seems obvious that Luke 'mind wiped' her before hiding her away.

Perhaps. A Jedi mind wipe would explain her lack of knowledge about what happened to her, but from the sound of her telling her back story she seems to know who her folks are, she's just been left on Jakku by them. Unless these are implanted memories, or surrogate parents that she remembers, like Owen and Beru Lars.

Yeah, my bad regarding the characters who see the planetary destruction, but the point still stands, because when they go on about the power of Star Killer Base's main weapon they do seem to be saying that it can be fired from longer distances, as in from other star systems to the target. And once it has destroyed whatever star system it was we saw bite the superlaser bolt it then pretty much instantly re-targeted on the Resistance base, and the Resistance starfighters jumped out of hyperspace to attack Starkiller, so that had to be in a different system. Like I say, not as clear as it could be that part.

Yea, it would appear that Maz' planet wasn't in the Hosnian system either, infact looking at a map it's far away. The Starkiller ending is a bit of a mess all in all.

Watched it a 3rd and 4th time now, albeit just a cam, and it really is ANH with bits of ESB thrown in in the middle and ROTJ thrown in at the end

After the hype dies down, I can't see it holding up long term which is a disappointment because the new characters are all likeable
  ...at least on a human level anyway, I think Rey's too much of a superhero tbh. Stupendous pilot, genius mechanic/engineer, amazingly quick to pick up the force, she even invents the Jedi Mindtrick haha, able to best someone who must have 20 years (half with Luke, half with a Sith Lord) more training, knowledge and experience in the force and general lightsaber combat. She's basically at the point Luke was between ESB and ROTJ, I'm not sure a little bit of training from Luke as a little kid can really explain that.
Luke was nowhere near as precocious, relying on his friends far more and even in the end it was his humanity and relationship with his father that saved the galaxy and himself, not his leet skills.

Whilst I'm on a downer, the more I watch Poe's escape scene the more I dislike it. It's like the writers wanted the OT camaraderie without earning it. Oh and "let's blow up one of the turbolasers on a 2km ship covered in them, this isn't pointless action at all!"

Overall, the new characters, the dialogue, the old heroes and some of the visuals (not the CGI) is what makes me like the movie. Huge flaws and irritations slap me across the face thoughout however

1st the music was more noticeable than last time with some good scores. 2nd the system that the weapon destroyed was the HA-Z-EN system(don't know how they spell it), and it seems that the Resistance, just thought the Republic fleet(or the part of it in the area) was gone not the whole Republic government.

3rd The First Order is using a new kind of Star Destroyer, rather than the Imperial Class from the original trilogy. 4th in Rey's vision when she picks up Luke's lightsaber at the end it sounded like it could be Snoke's voice, or the old man's that gave poe the map at the beginning.

Still a great movie, with the common complaints being the ones that can be offered about every movie and nothing else too major. I don't want to wait two years for episode 8

I think Rey is a Skywalker. Luke's saber 'called out' to her and well, just based on Daisy, a near Keira Knightly (Padme double in the PT) clone, she looks like one. (Part of the reason I was sure Kylo was a Solo was because Adam Driver kind of looks a bit like a little bit longer faced Harrison Ford).
It doesn't appear that she's Kylo's sister, as I thought beforehand, so it only leaves Luke. Maybe Leia had her after she and Han split, tho you'd think Leia would sense it. It'd make poetic sense that the only person who could find a Skywalker was a Skywalker, plus I can't see the New Trilogy centering on a non Skywalker.
Whatever her lineage, it seems obvious that Luke 'mind wiped' her before hiding her away.

Perhaps. A Jedi mind wipe would explain her lack of knowledge about what happened to her, but from the sound of her telling her back story she seems to know who her folks are, she's just been left on Jakku by them. Unless these are implanted memories, or surrogate parents that she remembers, like Owen and Beru Lars.

Yeah, my bad regarding the characters who see the planetary destruction, but the point still stands, because when they go on about the power of Star Killer Base's main weapon they do seem to be saying that it can be fired from longer distances, as in from other star systems to the target. And once it has destroyed whatever star system it was we saw bite the superlaser bolt it then pretty much instantly re-targeted on the Resistance base, and the Resistance starfighters jumped out of hyperspace to attack Starkiller, so that had to be in a different system. Like I say, not as clear as it could be that part.

The Resistance didn't see the planets get destroyed btw. Han did but he was on a planet in the same system as those destroyed.

It's still unclear tho whether Starkiller moves or not. It must do because the beam doesn't go faster than light so can't travel across the galaxy. Either that or it was always in the same system as the new Senate/Government and that would be absurd. It would also be useless after using up the energy from the star/s it orbited. It was also very close to the star it was feeding from so it probably positioned itself there.
I'm guessing Starkiller has some kind of dampening system so it isn't ravaged every time it moves.
I understand the need to turn the Resistance from a secret tool of the New Republic into the sole resistance to the First Order so some kind of superweapon to cripple the Republic was needed, I just wish it was something else, even if it was just a HUGE fleet of Star Destroyers - a la Knights of the Old Republic and Taris - or a Super Duper Star Destroyer with a rail gun or something, not another 'moon/planet'
Also wish it had a different name. For those of us who are familier with SW it takes you out of it a bit knowing that it was the original name of Luke and is used in The Force Unleashed - another use that felt fourth wall breaking to me.

I did enjoy the movie more on 2nd viewing and agree the music was a little more noticeable but, yea, it still falls flat compared to the other soundtracks

I think Rey is a Skywalker. Luke's saber 'called out' to her and well, just based on Daisy, a near Keira Knightly (Padme double in the PT) clone, she looks like one. (Part of the reason I was sure Kylo was a Solo was because Adam Driver kind of looks a bit like a little bit longer faced Harrison Ford).
It doesn't appear that she's Kylo's sister, as I thought beforehand, so it only leaves Luke. Maybe Leia had her after she and Han split, tho you'd think Leia would sense it. It'd make poetic sense that the only person who could find a Skywalker was a Skywalker, plus I can't see the New Trilogy centering on a non Skywalker.
Whatever her lineage, it seems obvious that Luke 'mind wiped' her before hiding her away.

Also on the subject of Rey, I'm less convinced than before that she is indeed Luke's daughter (would be more interesting if she wasn't in my opinion), this is due to the way she talks about Luke on first meeting Han, thinking of Luke like a legend that wasn't real. Doesn't sound like what some one who could be his daughter would say. Just didn't seem to ring true, so maybe her origins do lie elsewhere after all. Still this could be a red herring. Still loving the way we were thrown by Finn having the Lightsaber in all the promotional material, a masterful bit of misdirection.

The music also seems a little stronger on the second watch, though still paling in comparison with both original and prequel trilogy soundtracks, but it just seemed to register a bit more this time. Rey's theme and Scavenger tracks definitely coming across like the standouts.

On the negative side, some things also still made little or no sense on an additional viewing. Star Killer Base's primary weapon still doesn't really clearly register as to what the weapon actually does. And why it is better than say the Death Star's superlaser? It sucks the power up from a nearby sun to then fire a beam across the galaxy somehow. So the upgrade is that you don't have to be in system to fire the weapon? And it seems able to take out multiple planetary targets with it's energy ribbon/bolt thing as it splits off strands to take out multiple planets in a system. It all seems a little random to me, and not as cut and dried and clear as what you got with the Death Star's superlaser, it was very clear what that thing did, here it seems more nebulous in what the weapon's capabilities are. And can Star Killer Base actually move through space? Or is it a relatively static object, like a standard planet, and it is just able to fire its weapon clear across the galaxy? As if it could move like the original Death Star's surely that would be problematic for those seemingly living on the surface of the base, as clearly surface and atmospheric conditions would change quite drastically depending how close or far away it was from  the nearest star. This then also leads to the other main bit which didn't make sense for me. The fact that these worlds are getting destroyed by the base in a system completely different to where the Resistance base is, yet people there can see all the action with their naked eye like it is something happening in their local space, at least within the same star system, which it supposedly didn't as the target was named as a separate star system. That whole sequence and idea needed work as it just doesn't seem to work on any level.

That together with the broad strokes of the plot being basically a rehash of Episode IV seem to be my main gripes. That and how criminally underused Captain Phasma seems to be. She's meant to be this bad pie, yet we never see her do anything, other than give up secrets like a babbling brook spilling secrets over left right and center with next to no provocation from what we saw. What was all that about? Seems a wasted opportunity, hopefully there is some footage/scene or whatever on the cutting room floor in which Captain Phasma gets the chance to show what a bad pie she really is.

There is probably more to be considered, but this is all I can be arsed writing now.

I still love the movie as there is plenty in there they get right, but there a few chinks in the armour that could have been dealt with better.