mechag2 wrote:

I haven't yet had the chance to read the previous posts in this thread, but I wanted to post several of my personal observations and suggestions for this stellar mod (at least the ones off the top of my head ).

Also, keep in mind I do realize gameplay takes precedence for anything lore related and my knowledge of modding and what's possible with BF2142's engine is quite limited (if not non-existent).

Alrighty then...

1) The ability to swing the B-wing's gyro in both directions. I understand this is most likely to do with limitations in implementing this feature properly, but it would none the less kick some serious butt to be able to do it. lol I'd also probably increase the rotate speed a bit.

2) The B-wing should really be equipped with 12 proton torpedoes & the Y-wing with 8.

3) The A-wing is missing it's 2 Dymek HM-6 concussion missile launchers (with 6 missiles each, of course).

4) There are various inaccurate sound fx (ion cannons, DL-44, proton torpedoes, etc.), but I don't know if that's because they can't be used or for some other reason.

5) The S3 model Y-wing's turret's ability to switch between ion & laser cannon fire (although, I must admit it's pretty cool and it does make for a rather good gameplay mechanic).

6) Not limiting the ion cannons with ammunition. I'd personally rather include a recharge rate or overheat function for gameplay purposes. Possibly for laser cannons as well, but with the state of the hit boxes, I'm not so sure.

7) The T.I.E. Fighter's laser cannons should really be fire linked.

8) Personally, I'd like to have manual control over the S-foils, but again, I don't even know if that's possible and I might be the only one. lol

9) The ability to look around the cockpit interior. I LOOOOOVE this feature.

10) Give the 74-Z it's correct flight ceiling (If I recall correctly, it's 25 meters). Again, don't know if that's possible. lol

11) The ability to lock the camera behind fighters and other flight craft.

Well, now that I've stated my ignorance toward modding while simultaneously critiquing and raving about this A-W-E-S-O-M-E mod (I've shown it to almost everyone I know and all their jaws hit the floor )... anyone have any thoughts?

I've done some heavy modding but it was all in tribes 2..and i've not even seen the 2142 editor..so that being said coming from a programmers standpoint heres my thoughts on your thoughts about thoughts =p

1). The rotate speed can possibly be changed...but having it rotate both directions would probably require an extra button to be used...and theres seems to be a limit on chooseable buttons for this task. but a fsdev would have to answer that one.

2) Easy change to do if its balance is required.

3) I noticed this as well, however since the missles aren't really used for anti fighter(ie there are no lock-on targets), the a-wing on most of these maps would just be another extra vehicle used to attack capitol ships just like the x-wing is both a bomber/fighter type setup...Granted they have stated in some situations they don't want to mirror weapon sets between the rebel and imperial side...giving every single vehicle a way to bomb on the rebel side and only one on the imperial side would be a little imbalancing...the a-wings goal was to be an interceptor/anti-fighter...and since the concussions woudn't currently lock onto a fighter it wouldn't help support that role. but it is do-able.

4) Dunno about that one, can be anywhere from a lack of actual sound files to just not being able to fit them in properlly.

5) I thought this was already in the game? or was it the primary turret only...you can switch with x or f or something...its in the manual...

6) They could be put in, and probably should at some point, but the amount of drain or the speed of how fast it goes up can be adjusted so that you can still get plenty of shots off...just not hold the button down for the entire flight...

7) Agreed. However from what i've seen every single weapon except for the flechette and cr1 all fire single shot at a time...even the at-st...so being as no other weapon in 2142 has the same capability it might be an issue of either making it a single shot or a shotgun type effect...and the engine itself limits the capability of firing 2 shots at once...

8) Comes with the same problem with the x-wing...it prossibly could be done...but you run out of useable keys quickly...

9) Unknown...typically in 2142 you can only do this as a gunner type position so being able to fly and change the view is probably something the engines not designed for...unless you rebind the fighters to fly via wasd keys purely and the mouse to aim your camera...which would be harder to fly and even more annoying...

10) If you give a flight ceiling can be hard to do because you have to run a check for the Y(often referred to as Z) distance to the actual ground altitude plane which changes constantly...0 on the y access is really well below the ground, and since altitudes change constantly, ie endor strike map. It would require alot of checking to see if you hit that flight ceiling at any given point on the map...just another thing to cause lag. Really just changing the rate that it can even climb is probably easier...and as far as lore was concerned look at the pod race in sw1, anakin got it way the heck up there but coudn't maintain it...only got so high because of a ramp...so really theres no real need for the change other then maybe tweaking the ability to climb altitude down just a tad.

11) You can hit C to change the view when your piloting a vehicle to be in 3rd person....why they would put in an ability to lock a view around another fighter in-game is really more of a cheat to see where they are...unless you are using some wierd spectator mode...in which case its no where near a high priority change...

Ah. Thanks for the heads up.

Regarding the A-wing, I was afraid you were going to give me that answer. lol I was hoping a target lock function could be added for warheads.

Also, the function of the Y-wing's turret (for the gunner in the S3 models) being able to switch between laser & ion cannon actually is in the game, but what I meant is it wasn't lore accurate. It is a pretty sweet gameplay mechanic, though. lol I imagine the ability to switch between laser & ion cannons for the pilot will be availabe once the A4 models (the single seaters) are implemented in the game.

A few of the guys were telling me fire linked cannons is not possible in BF2142's engine, unfortunately. *sheds a tear*

You actually can look around the cockpit interiors in BF2 and BF2142, but you have to hold down the ALT key (by default). However, like you said, it would be another key to manage. lol

What I meant about locking the camera behind your craft is that the camera is centered behind your craft in chase view and it rolls left with the craft when you roll left, right when you roll right, up and so forth. I wasn't referring to a pad-lock function for enemy craft. Although that would be a nice addition. lol

I just remembered a few things I forgot to mention in my "list". lol

1) I noticed the A-wing model is based on one of the toys (Micro Machines Action Fleet?), which isn't really a bad thing. However, the inaccurate landing skid openings on the bottom of the toy managed to get implemented instead of the "real deal". lol It should really be fixed

2) The rear section of the Y-wing's cockpit is a metal plating rather than the correct transparasteel window. This should be corrected as well.

3) The B-wing's laser cannon sfx should really be changed to the same laser cannon sfx as the Y-, X- & A-wing's.

I haven't yet had the chance to read the previous posts in this thread, but I wanted to post several of my personal observations and suggestions for this stellar mod (at least the ones off the top of my head ).

Also, keep in mind I do realize gameplay takes precedence for anything lore related and my knowledge of modding and what's possible with BF2142's engine is quite limited (if not non-existent).

Alrighty then...

1) The ability to swing the B-wing's gyro in both directions. I understand this is most likely to do with limitations in implementing this feature properly, but it would none the less kick some serious butt to be able to do it. lol I'd also probably increase the rotate speed a bit.

2) The B-wing should really be equipped with 12 proton torpedoes & the Y-wing with 8.

3) The A-wing is missing it's 2 Dymek HM-6 concussion missile launchers (with 6 missiles each, of course).

4) There are various inaccurate sound fx (ion cannons, DL-44, proton torpedoes, etc.), but I don't know if that's because they can't be used or for some other reason.

5) The S3 model Y-wing's turret's ability to switch between ion & laser cannon fire (although, I must admit it's pretty cool and it does make for a rather good gameplay mechanic).

6) Not limiting the ion cannons with ammunition. I'd personally rather include a recharge rate or overheat function for gameplay purposes. Possibly for laser cannons as well, but with the state of the hit boxes, I'm not so sure.

7) The T.I.E. Fighter's laser cannons should really be fire linked.

8) Personally, I'd like to have manual control over the S-foils, but again, I don't even know if that's possible and I might be the only one. lol

9) The ability to look around the cockpit interior. I LOOOOOVE this feature.

10) Give the 74-Z it's correct flight ceiling (If I recall correctly, it's 25 meters). Again, don't know if that's possible. lol

11) The ability to lock the camera behind fighters and other flight craft.

Well, now that I've stated my ignorance toward modding while simultaneously critiquing and raving about this A-W-E-S-O-M-E mod (I've shown it to almost everyone I know and all their jaws hit the floor )... anyone have any thoughts?

I've done some heavy modding but it was all in tribes 2..and i've not even seen the 2142 editor..so that being said coming from a programmers standpoint heres my thoughts on your thoughts about thoughts =p

1). The rotate speed can possibly be changed...but having it rotate both directions would probably require an extra button to be used...and theres seems to be a limit on chooseable buttons for this task. but a fsdev would have to answer that one.

2) Easy change to do if its balance is required.

3) I noticed this as well, however since the missles aren't really used for anti fighter(ie there are no lock-on targets), the a-wing on most of these maps would just be another extra vehicle used to attack capitol ships just like the x-wing is both a bomber/fighter type setup...Granted they have stated in some situations they don't want to mirror weapon sets between the rebel and imperial side...giving every single vehicle a way to bomb on the rebel side and only one on the imperial side would be a little imbalancing...the a-wings goal was to be an interceptor/anti-fighter...and since the concussions woudn't currently lock onto a fighter it wouldn't help support that role. but it is do-able.

4) Dunno about that one, can be anywhere from a lack of actual sound files to just not being able to fit them in properlly.

5) I thought this was already in the game? or was it the primary turret only...you can switch with x or f or something...its in the manual...

6) They could be put in, and probably should at some point, but the amount of drain or the speed of how fast it goes up can be adjusted so that you can still get plenty of shots off...just not hold the button down for the entire flight...

7) Agreed. However from what i've seen every single weapon except for the flechette and cr1 all fire single shot at a time...even the at-st...so being as no other weapon in 2142 has the same capability it might be an issue of either making it a single shot or a shotgun type effect...and the engine itself limits the capability of firing 2 shots at once...

8) Comes with the same problem with the x-wing...it prossibly could be done...but you run out of useable keys quickly...

9) Unknown...typically in 2142 you can only do this as a gunner type position so being able to fly and change the view is probably something the engines not designed for...unless you rebind the fighters to fly via wasd keys purely and the mouse to aim your camera...which would be harder to fly and even more annoying...

10) If you give a flight ceiling can be hard to do because you have to run a check for the Y(often referred to as Z) distance to the actual ground altitude plane which changes constantly...0 on the y access is really well below the ground, and since altitudes change constantly, ie endor strike map. It would require alot of checking to see if you hit that flight ceiling at any given point on the map...just another thing to cause lag. Really just changing the rate that it can even climb is probably easier...and as far as lore was concerned look at the pod race in sw1, anakin got it way the heck up there but coudn't maintain it...only got so high because of a ramp...so really theres no real need for the change other then maybe tweaking the ability to climb altitude down just a tad.

11) You can hit C to change the view when your piloting a vehicle to be in 3rd person....why they would put in an ability to lock a view around another fighter in-game is really more of a cheat to see where they are...unless you are using some wierd spectator mode...in which case its no where near a high priority change...

Also, keep in mind I do realize gameplay takes precedence for anything lore related and my knowledge of modding and what's possible with BF2142's engine is quite limited (if not non-existent).

Alrighty then...

1) The ability to swing the B-wing's gyro in both directions. I understand this is most likely to do with limitations in implementing this feature properly, but it would none the less kick some serious butt to be able to do it. lol I'd also probably increase the rotate speed a bit.

2) The B-wing should really be equipped with 12 proton torpedoes & the Y-wing with 8.

3) The A-wing is missing it's 2 Dymek HM-6 concussion missile launchers (with 6 missiles each, of course).

4) There are various inaccurate sound fx (ion cannons, DL-44, proton torpedoes, etc.), but I don't know if that's because they can't be used or for some other reason.

5) The S3 model Y-wing's turret's ability to switch between ion & laser cannon fire (although, I must admit it's pretty cool and it does make for a rather good gameplay mechanic).

6) Not limiting the ion cannons with ammunition. I'd personally rather include a recharge rate or overheat function for gameplay purposes. Possibly for laser cannons as well, but with the state of the hit boxes, I'm not so sure.

7) The T.I.E. Fighter's laser cannons should really be fire linked.

8) Personally, I'd like to have manual control over the S-foils, but again, I don't even know if that's possible and I might be the only one. lol

9) The ability to look around the cockpit interior. I LOOOOOVE this feature.

10) Give the 74-Z it's correct flight ceiling (If I recall correctly, it's 25 meters). Again, don't know if that's possible. lol

11) The ability to lock the camera behind fighters and other flight craft.

Well, now that I've stated my ignorance toward modding while simultaneously critiquing and raving about this A-W-E-S-O-M-E mod (I've shown it to almost everyone I know and all their jaws hit the floor )... anyone have any thoughts?

It's not that long, is it? XD

I agree with most of it, especially with the need for more advanced binoculars, along with the destructible shield point. I also think the rocket launcher needs more uses, as it currently stands there are never enough vehicles to justify bringing the AV weapons to the battlefield, every vehicle besides the small walker can be easily destroyed or have its pilots killed with any other normal weapon, and the walkers can still easily be taken out by the 10 second timed grenades and the anti-vehicle mines of the heavy weapons class. Give the EMP blaster some damage on infantry along with a larger blast radius (it says that it is deadly to most life forms but I've never gotten a kill with it and it seems to do no damage) and give the rocket launcher splash damage but a smaller area of effect (although more damage) than the EMP blaster.

I've only seen the demp kill if you get a dead on center hit with the projectile itself..the area effect does almost nothing if any...

I agree with most of it, especially with the need for more advanced binoculars, along with the destructible shield point. I also think the rocket launcher needs more uses, as it currently stands there are never enough vehicles to justify bringing the AV weapons to the battlefield, every vehicle besides the small walker can be easily destroyed or have its pilots killed with any other normal weapon, and the walkers can still easily be taken out by the 10 second timed grenades and the anti-vehicle mines of the heavy weapons class. Give the EMP blaster some damage on infantry along with a larger blast radius (it says that it is deadly to most life forms but I've never gotten a kill with it and it seems to do no damage) and give the rocket launcher splash damage but a smaller area of effect (although more damage) than the EMP blaster.

1. Arrows are drawn on the minimap in the 1.1 hotfix

2. Mos Espa is a push map in 1.1

3. The DEMP2 will come into its own on vehicle centric maps. 1.0 featured almost entirely infantry maps, so the weapons use is understated.

4. I agree that the psg should be descructable, especially the emitter thing.

5. I personally think firendly fire is part of the game.

6. We will have to look into this

7. This or a varaition of it is planned for some stage in the future.

8. Battle of Hoth will be in 2.0 (everything going according to plan), it will include working AT-ATs.

9. This is an ability I have never really bothered with, so my oppinion is moot.

10. We don't want to mirror balance our weapons.

11. This once again comes back to the lack of vehicle centric maps. On a more vehicle centric map there will be rebel tanks (from other SW games such as force commander), these will create more of a need for imps to use rocket launchers. Also the Land speeder is getting its HP upped for 1.1.

/deepbow

2. Mos Espa is a push map in 1.1

3. The DEMP2 will come into its own on vehicle centric maps. 1.0 featured almost entirely infantry maps, so the weapons use is understated.

4. I agree that the psg should be descructable, especially the emitter thing.

5. I personally think firendly fire is part of the game.

6. We will have to look into this

7. This or a varaition of it is planned for some stage in the future.

8. Battle of Hoth will be in 2.0 (everything going according to plan), it will include working AT-ATs.

9. This is an ability I have never really bothered with, so my oppinion is moot.

10. We don't want to mirror balance our weapons.

11. This once again comes back to the lack of vehicle centric maps. On a more vehicle centric map there will be rebel tanks (from other SW games such as force commander), these will create more of a need for imps to use rocket launchers. Also the Land speeder is getting its HP upped for 1.1.

Ok, I attempted to read that but I quit after paragraph two.

All I can say for now is that the hot fix will fix that confusion of capping flags in the right order.

Minimap will have visual aids.

The Rebel tank was not included in R1 because it was not finished in time. But I think it will make an appearance in Espa for R2 or an upcoming patch.

Of course the really funny thing was is if I seperated each paragraph into its own post, and changed my name each time, you wouldn't have any problems reading it...funny how that works huh...

All I can say for now is that the hot fix will fix that confusion of capping flags in the right order.

Minimap will have visual aids.

The Rebel tank was not included in R1 because it was not finished in time. But I think it will make an appearance in Espa for R2 or an upcoming patch.

We don't grade AP English papers here, try to keep stuff like this brief, so people will actually read it.

As I pointed out that was brief, I could write a 6 page paper on each of those(i'm actually entering the game design/develoupment field so I spend alot of time studying things like this)...but i'll keep future ones even simplier if at all possible =p

First are the mapview themselves... maps like the big mos espa maps you can't capture certain bases unless you have links...those links are not visible nor obvious and can make or break and assault if you don't know which to go to next.

Second is though I do love espa theres one fatal flaw in its overall design...in the last several large server battles about 70% of the time both sides rotate bases in one direction or the other..typically in a counter-clockwise manner...rebels will flank and capture imperials, imperials will flank and capture rebels..there is rarely really any conquering going on..and in some cases theres hardly any big fights its usually large squads moving on left-overs while the enemy large squads are moving opposite....as some have posted this could be due to a lack of overal side-leadership but maybe the pathways and ways through the city was more...directional in a pattern of which base should come next rather then leaving it as open as it is..it might better draw both sides into the larger battles where this mod shines the most...

Third would be the imperial support demp2 weapon....very nice against vehicles...IF I ever saw a rebel in a vehicle...I come from 4 years of swg playing as imperial so I do my best to stick imperial when I can..now maybe when more maps get released it might be different but I never see rebels in a vehicle short of the occasionally rare speeder, which can be dropped just as fast by any other weapon in the mod...The demp2 weapon is like the least used weapon out on the battlefield as a result...its anti-infantry effect is almost non-existant. You have to get dead center hits to be any more effective then any other gun. I think the area damage effect it has, needs to be tweaked slightly higher, especially since its a 1 shot then reload weapon. Nothing significant just say if its doing 10 points of damage as an area maybe crank to 15 at most...something slightly higher so it can be useful to a degree...

Fourth on my list would be the PSG's...extremely useful..and impossible to blow up...I know the medic grenades from both sides are the most effective thing at bypassing the shield but I'd think a rocket or even 6 full head-on shots from a morter would eventually drop it...most especially and at the very least...if you shoot the pod from the open side of the psg it should be destroyable...

Fifth on my list is my 36 kills 2 deaths and -20 points score issue....the proximity mines...I don't mind that they kill friendlies if they are nearby when they explode...but they darn well need to not blow up if a friendly comes near em...I had a great run today but my score was so far negative(not that it matters) because friendlys get walking up to them even though theres a great big red X on them just to see what they do...then i'd get punished for it and eventually kicked and yelled at while everyone else just laughs...Theres hardly anyone that uses these for that reason...wayy to many tk's are happening when setting these up...also it would be nice if emp's either from support(great fix for the above issue) or grenades should cause them to blow pre-maturely if they get hit by them...there is no counter to them atm other then to run over and hope someone can res you. At least i've never seen an emp blow one.

Sixth on my list would be the battle of taloraan...One of the best way to win the fights is to pull all your ships together..which is fine, especially if you got tyour cargo ship repairing the others...the problem is the further you take your fleet away from your fighter respawns, and closer to the enemy sides the quicker you go down...as a result theres no incentive to head over and assault the opposite side if you want to have the best advantage...now atm everyone just charges for fun but when it comes to strategy and like tourny's and things this is exactly what will happen...

both sides will keep their capitol ships piled up next to their respawns and hardly any will ever cross the line unless theres a capital ship which can't be boarded(bug that sometimes happens too if no one jumps in them early enough they can't ever be boarded later). It would be cool if there was actuall stations in the space sector that could be captured...ie maybe some asteroid stations or something without weaponry that once you cap you can spawn a few fighters of each type at...so that there could be a reason to try and take the field to press the opposite side and still be able to have that respawn working for you...

Seventh on my list...now we start getting into the more heavier wants...The biggest map i've heard/seen requested from the group of players I run with is a boarding map from the start of episode 4...where imperials are on the ISD, rebels are defending their corvette...and its basically an interior ground map, but fighting push style into a corvette, rebels defending.

Eighth on my list...would of course be the battle everyones wanted from swg or any starwars game...the battle of hoth with working pilotable at-at's...which if done right could work...SWG never added them because it was too easy to get under the feet and it would turn to fast and had a huge un-fair advantage...well in maps as big as we have who cares if people get under the feet...they should move as slow as a capitol ship hav elong range heavy firepower as intended and can't turn for crap...if they get surrounded they should go down...theres no fantasy about it.... Make the 2 big guns work like capitol ship setup and have a generator that takes 100 or so hits to go down and run the conquest that way...

Ninth on my list...As much as I love the scout trooper bino's and the other bino's in the game...they could stand give a little more information then just zooming in..at the very least act as a range finder or a very pinpoint directional anti-personel scannter..remember the vanilla's 2142 support unlock that would scan your field of vision once and show them to the squad...you can do the same thing with those...especially for troopers and most especially or if not limited to officers ....

Tenth and finally last on my list...the cr1 vs the flechette...balancing issue really...the flechette has 4 rounds then must be reloaded..with 8 clips, whereas the cr1 has 1 clip of 40 rounds and it has a temperature cooldown thingy on it...the balancing issue is the cr1 can fire 4 shots wait 1 second and fire 1-2 shots more....the flechette can fire 4 shots...then reload for 3-4 seconds before it can fire another...if it comes down to a cr1vs flechette fight and some how either one fires 4 shots and are still alive the cr1 will still win...or if the cr1 is doing a close quarters charge vs the flechette charging the cr1 still way out-performs because of the quicker 1-2 shots vs the long reload of the flechette...

Ok theres one more, it tags along with the demp2 issue...the rocket launcher for the imperial side is also very rarely used if ever...the rebels have that nice 4 seater with a gunner speeder to make up for the imperials at-st but its still lightly armored...any 1 or 2 t21's can take it out quickly enough theres no reason for the missle launcher...maybe if the rebel side had some type of vehicle/deployable thing that when deployed would be stationary turret of some kind that has heavy armor but is very vulnerable when its un-deployed for moving or something to that effect...I can't think of any examples that might fit with the movie but why put in a rocket launcher if its never used =P