I understand that the developers here want to have all, or at least most of the maps played so everyone gets a taste of the entire thing. I don't blame them as there has obviously been a great deal of work go into them. It is a fantastic mod. However, the way it is going to grow is by the server owners giving the pubbers a reason to come back. If that means all the maps in whatever rotation they can think of, or 3-4 maps, or even just 1 or 2 maps, then great. The more players that we can get to try it and that find they had a good time, the more they will return and this thing will grow. However, if a player downloads and installs the mod, only to jump into a boring map, they might not ever come back.

Congratulations on putting this whole mod together, we are having a great time with it.

One final thing – when you realise what a doddering set of old gits we are at RT, you can't really expect us to be anything but set in our ways!

QFT!

The "problem" with space is that they require teamwork. Without teamwork, it's just spawn, fly at your target, get shot down, rinse and repeat, and of course that gets boring. Mos Espa, too, would quickly get boring if that's what everyone did - flung themselves at Slave Quarters and Junkyard one at a time, got a few shots off, died at the hands of pre-placed turrets and a squad of enemies, and did the same thing over again.

But once you've got squads formed and people actually stay together, they're fantastic. Yavin wouldn't "drag out so long" if the Rebels actually employed strategy and tactics to win.

And yes, I do indeed believe people can be taught this. If we throw Community Games and get some teamwork going on space maps with 30-60 people on, players will eventually realize that, hey, there is something to be found here, and the more people we got to realize that, the better space would be.

Im not here to kill space maps - otherwise I would be trying to get ground only servers, initially (that is plan B wink ).

Good thing you have a plan b, 'cause your plan a will very likely fail .

1. Taloraan loads up, player count maybe drops to 6, as you predict.
2. EfH loads up, people have no fun since only 6 people are on, more disappear. Map votes get spammed, but you know as well as me that those are totally unpredictable.
3. You're left with an empty server for hours.

THe problem you have is this mod wasnt built as PRmod, wasnt marketed as PRmod and therefore doesnt attract the PRmod type proffesional teamwork players.
Im a fan of PRmod, but I realise that no matter how much you whine about, and to, "pubnubs" they aren't  going to change. They wont suddenly all jump on TS, get in full Army gear and speak the battle lingo.
Teamwork in space, forgetting Taloraan, constitutes merely fighters covering bombers and I dont think you can compare that with ground maps, which have infinitely more teamwork possibilities, not to mention routes, locations etc.

* But like I said, this isn't about arguing over whether space is good, bad or ugly. You like space. Fine.*

As for my plan failing, If it did, so what?  Atleast I am trying to find ways to keep the server as full as possible for as long as possible, and not just moaning about everything not being PRmod - whether that be maps, features or players - or just hoping that it will get better, cos  month's of evidence points to the current poor stop-start player numbers continuing.

Even if by the time Hoth space loads up the server has few or no players, atleast the previous 8(16 rounds) ground maps would most likely have had a decent stable high number of players, which just doesnt happen ATM , with rotations as they are. That would actually mean success, as I am not trying to make space more intriguing for "ground pounders"(not my job anymore).

Still, you raise a valid point. Having a third of all the FS maps being effectively flying only is a difficult issue to come to terms with when you know damned well that a significant minority of players can't, won't, or simply don't like to fly.

You shouldn't be surprised to learn that several RT members are not at all keen on space maps, but we want to give the whole mod a fair bash, which is why we run all the maps. We all have different favourite maps anyway, so we can't do much else! We try to minimise the 'pain' for the non-flyers by having the space maps well separated with at least two ground maps between each one. We've also added different size versions of some of the ground maps, so the ratio of space maps is one in four, rather than the one in three you get if you only have each map once.

You see? We do think about you!

At least one of our unwilling pilots can be found in the top 10 of the pilots class, too, so there are advantages to sticking around! Believe me, once you learn how to fly, FS space maps are really good fun; joyous in fact. It is so worth the effort of learning (if you are interested, BF1942 Battle of Britain map on Co-op mode is where I honed my dogfighting skills - the physics are very similar to FS).

Don't forget that there is also a significant minority of players who are coming at FS with exactly the opposite viewpoint to players like Bandu and Gwynzer; those who've come for the space maps. When slots become available because a space map has started, we get regulars like those from the TRA clan coming on. They often (not always) leave when a ground map starts...

Point is I can never predict whether or not the numbers will drop when a space maps starts. Space map = empty server is simply not true.

I believe UKWF and Clan Mandrake both currently run ground-only servers, but I really hope the mod doesn't degenerate into a bunch of 24/7 Bestine servers. I really resented so many vanilla servers going to Gibraltar and Cerbere only, particularly as my favourite was Berlin!

One final thing – when you realise what a doddering set of old gits we are at RT, you can't really expect us to be anything but set in our ways!

Perhaps if all servers run a different varation of whatever turns out to be the most balanced and fun list, then we could possibly add alot of fun to the mod, an dencouragement to populate more than one server at a time.

The thing i see is that the maps are great, most of them anyway, and it is a fresh change after the countless hours I have in BF2142. However, trying to get players to play the maps for the "full experience," or thinking that the community will grow by marketing the "Stars Wars" experience will only help so much. While many of us in NfB like Star Wars, we have some that have started playing the mod that don't like Star Wars. However, after hearing us talk about it, they gave it a try and enjoyed it because it is a great mod, not because they are Star Wars fans. The maps are great, the weapons and gadgets are great, etc...

That being said, we have some maps that we really like the feel of and others that we don't so much.  This is the same for BF2142, and while there are some fantastic maps in that game, trying to run a server that stays populated while running all, or even most of the maps is nigh impossible.

I see this mod the same way. Most players are going to stay in your server for anywhere from 2-3 hours at a time, which is never enough to go through all the maps. So, the way I see it from a server owner's perspective, is that you choose the most popular maps and those are the ones you run, and sadly that means some maps are left out. I know from the feedback we are getting, the Endor maps are great, along with Bestine, Rhen Var Reasearch, and Ryloth. Taloraan is okay, but most players aren't looking for that "Chess Match in Space" where you are trying to maneuver everything just right. For a clan battle, maybe, but for a pub server, not so much. Yavin crashes many of us to desktop, and we still haven't been able to figure out why Mos Entha resets our server.

I'm sure that won't be popular with some of you that are hard core here, but we aren't looking for the total experience, but to have some fun with the mod. That means fun maps, with fun battles, and if we don't play all the maps, oh well. We are trying to pull more people in, and it won't happen by getting them to play maps they don't like.  So, we'll be running the ones that we like, and not the one's we don't and hopefully we'll be successful in bringing more people into the mod.

But once you've got squads formed and people actually stay together, they're fantastic. Yavin wouldn't "drag out so long" if the Rebels actually employed strategy and tactics to win.

And yes, I do indeed believe people can be taught this. If we throw Community Games and get some teamwork going on space maps with 30-60 people on, players will eventually realize that, hey, there is something to be found here, and the more people we got to realize that, the better space would be.

Good thing you have a plan b, 'cause your plan a will very likely fail .

1. Taloraan loads up, player count maybe drops to 6, as you predict.
2. EfH loads up, people have no fun since only 6 people are on, more disappear. Map votes get spammed, but you know as well as me that those are totally unpredictable.
3. You're left with an empty server for hours.