Re: At Last! DICE to make the new SWBF!!!

mechag2 wrote:

In my experience it helps promote and reward teamwork, strategy and tactics
One of the main reasons I always wanted DICE to helm the Battlefront series was their meticulous attention to detail and commitment to immersion and authenticity. Something Pandemic's original two Battlefront games were sorely lacking.

Heh, ain't that the truth.

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Re: At Last! DICE to make the new SWBF!!!

mechag2 wrote:

Honestly though, my internet problems aside, I have to disagree. I love the more realistic damage for the very same reason you don't, and I'm really hoping the new Battlefront follows suit.

In my experience it helps promote and reward teamwork, strategy and tactics much better than the old BF games because if you don't work together with your squad/team and play smart, you'll be respawning quickly and frequently.

Fair enough. Yeah I haven't even played any of the new BF's since I played about one round of Bad Company 2 years ago. So I am going off that experience and videos of BF4. But I've always been of that opinion on gunplay. It is one reason I didn't care for Desert Combat much(aside from flying the apache lol).

From videos of BF4 though, it seems to me if you are spotted first, you are dead 100% of the time. There is no hiding behind cover because the second you stop moving, you die. The kind of gameplay where it is 50% playing, 50% staring at a respawn timer(or worse). But that is just how it looks to me.

Anyway DICE has said they don't plan on just reskinning Battlefield. We'll see. I'll probably enjoy it. I hope they take some notes from GC's space battles. I say GC's only because there was capital ship boarding. DICE has said they enjoyed both GC and FS. If those devs are even at DICE anymore heh.

Re: At Last! DICE to make the new SWBF!!!

Well the E3 gameplay trailers are out and they're pretty damned awesome, check 'em out below:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/lg_ht2GfQJU

https://www.youtube.com/embed/jXU5k4U8x20


I have to admit it was a bittersweet moment for me to see the gameplay for this finally. With our hard work on the Star Wars Battlefield 2142 mod First Strike I could see a lot of it in what was on show here, though obviously done a lot better than our non-profit efforts, but this in part was what we aimed to do with First Strike, fill that gap which was left empty by the last Star Wars Battlefront game and improve on that and bring it more into line with gritty Battlefield style gameplay, and also show EA and DICE that there was a market for this game (as if that was ever in doubt  tongue ), and encourage them in some small part in our efforts on First Strike to actually get in there and do a Battlefield engine and gameplay style based Star Wars game. Now that has happened and we can hang up our blasters and enjoy this game when it comes out like the millions of other fans out there who'll be chomping at the bit for this.

With the first video above (Co-Op Gameplay) I was very impressed with the feel and authenticity of the thing, a Tatooine based survival mode where a small Rebel group having escaped the Empire's clutches via escape pod from a captured Corellian Corvette (Rebel Blockade Runner) in orbit which is then blown to pieces by an Imperial Star Destroyer in the opening moments of the sequence. Is it Princess Leia's Tantive IV? Or another Rebel ship suffering a similar fate to that titular ship? It matters not, the scene is set and the circumstances feel authentic. Imperial forces are sent down from orbit to quash the Rebel survivors and all hell breaks loose as the Rebels must face wave after wave of increasingly more difficult foes until Rebel reinforcement space forces can arrive.

From a technical standpoint the graphics look lush, the hardware once again authentic looking with the Rebels packing A280s and DH-17 blasters from what I could tell, with different styles of firing for each. Weapon overheat was a visible gameplay factor with a Rebel needing to melee attack a Stormtrooper due to his blaster overheating. Both Rebel and Imperial forces had jetpack equipped classes which looked fun, and then there were other battlefield perks such as orbital strikes, heavy weapon pick-ups, etc. Weapons looked to have that standard console crosshair and aim assist type of thing going on, but the action looked good. I also liked the pods being sent down for the Rebels to capture and defend like dynamic flags. First Strike style withering fire seemed to have found it's way into the gameplay as Rebels were firing all weapons at the AT-ST Walkers when they eventually turned up, and one appeared to erupt on being hit by DH-17 blasterfire, unless the player happened to be firing at the target as an orbital strike took out the Walker, which is entirely possible. Whichever the case, on the strength of this gameplay footage I was quietly optimistic.

Then came the multiplayer game play footage. This was based entirely on a Hoth AT-AT Walker Assault Mode map. This one had the biggest sting in the tail for me as I had been working on a First Strike version of The Battle of Hoth as things all went to pot with EA cancelling support for their older games essentially rendering BF2142 obsolete and ringing the death knell for First Strike, but to be fair it was on it's way out long before then, and we had had Hoth in development on the back burner for some years, but on seeing their version of the Echo Base corridors and then hangar I was elated, but also seeing how strikingly similar it was to mine (well it would be they're both based on the same location and reference after all) quite gutted we didn't manage to get our version out to the public. It mattered not though, this was going to be awesome.

Then you get outside and you see TIE Fighters and X-Wings buzzing around and my heart sank. They have fallen for the same trap that I found the original Star Wars Battlefront ran foul of. Taking key battle locations and then just sacrificing authenticity for a larger canvas of gameplay. Personally if I'm playing The Battle of Hoth I want it to be as close to the movies as possible. Sure the sequence isn't going to be identical to the movie version, as gameplay obviously plays a part, but if you make such radical departures from the source material what is the point? On a Hoth battle map I want Imperial Walkers, Rebel Snowspeeders and perhaps logical extensions and embellishments so that the battle is essentially still the same in feel and authentic, but broadened out to see more of what went on than we see in the movies. So perhaps Snowtroopers on Speederbikes performing recon missions or striking outlying Rebel Outposts, perhaps Imperial Probe Droids taking a more offensive role in the battle itself. All things that could be happening while the main meat and potatoes of the battle is going on between Walkers and Snowspeeders. It would still feel authentic and just appear to be elements of the battle that we didn't see but were happening just beyond our vision in the movie. Slapping X-Wings and TIE Fighters all over it, they just might as well have shat all over it as far as I'm concerned. It is no longer The Battle of Hoth, but something else entirely. And don't get me started on the heroes/villains showing up at the end. I thought their inclusion ruined the last Star Wars Battlefront game, and they appear to have done the same here. Heck, they don't even have Luke wearing the appropriate gear for the time period the battle takes place in, with him wearing his Return of the Jedi style Jedi gear. Well at least they haven't gone the way of some earlier Star Wars games and gone and given the TIE Fighters missiles to balance them out against the X-Wings (touch wood).

wink


It almost made me want to continue with FS and bring out our vision of The Battle of Hoth via the Unreal 4 Star Wars mod that FS has merged with, and this could still happen, as every moment of that gameplay trailer I watched, for every good bit there was something that made me flinch and think how I'd have done that differently. I just don't understand what DICE are playing at here, they're harping on about going to the Lucasfilm Archives and getting all the research in to achieve an as great level of authenticity as possible, which visually and through sound design they certainly have done, but then throw that authenticity to the wind when it comes to the level design and gameplay? It is almost like someone went to all the trouble of recreating the Mona Lisa perfectly down to the cellular level, and then painting a big red nose and happy face over it or something. What gives?

I hope that maybe this is only one mode that is available on this map and that there maybe a more authentic truer to the movie gamemode that can be played, or EA and DICE are going to have a lot of unhappy punters on their hands. Who am I kidding though? It looks gorgeous, and it is Star Wars, people (myself included begrudgingly) are going to lap it up, plus the earlier Star Wars Battlefront had this issue playing free and loose with the lore of the locations featured in their maps, so why would this one be any different? I just hoped with this focus on authenticity and painstaking efforts to achieve movie like accuracy with their assets and locations that this new Battlefront would manage to avoid it.

So conflicted, want it bad, but hope it won't be as bad as I fear it might be. I think it'll be very good, but that there will be little niggly things that are going to annoy the hell out of me and drive me nuts.


cool mad cool

Like I said, conflicted....

lol

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Re: At Last! DICE to make the new SWBF!!!

I saw the withering fire and immediately thought of First Strike.

Then throughout the rest of the video, I just kept thinking "that's pretty, but First Strike still looks more fun"

26 (edited by mechag2 2015-06-17 00:39:07)

Re: At Last! DICE to make the new SWBF!!!

I agree, Talon. The graphics were absolutely AMAZING (I had to pick my jaw up off the floor a few times lol), but there were quite a few things in the trailers that concerned me.

Throwing X-Wings, Y-Wings and TIEs into the Battle of Hoth "just because" was the first major red flag. That was upsetting. What happened to authenticity? They don't belong there and I'm hoping DICE will come to their senses and remove them by launch.

There doesn't seem to be any take-off and landing, either. Which really saddens me if true, but what was even more worrisome was watching how the X-Wings and TIE Fighters maneuvered - it appears DICE has opted for an extremely simplified flight control scheme akin to the first Battlefront rather than the true 360° free flight controls of the Battlefield series. It makes sense for the T-47 since it's a repulsor craft, but not the starfighters.

Also, I was really hoping free-look would be included for vehicle cockpit views (especially after seeing how gorgeous the cockpits are; I'm hoping the AT-ATs & AT-STs have 'em, too), but knowing DICE, if free-look was implemented they would've used it in the trailer. Same goes for prone. I fear that's not being implemented, either (despite the first Battlefront and almost all the Battlefield games including it). Still, I'm hopeful these gameplay features will be in the game come launch day.

I'm really glad melee is included, but I wish DICE implemented an authentic scope/ADS system akin to the Battlefield series (I can't understand why so many Battlefront fans are dead set against it).

The Survivor Mode looked pretty amazing (and fun!), but there's a couple things I'm worried about. So far, everything mentioned and shown implies we'll only be able to play as Rebels against Imperial forces and there's no mention of vehicular combat. Players should have the freedom to play Imperial forces against the Rebellion if they so wish, and damn it all if DICE doesn't include the ability to use vehicles in Survivor Mode.

Another major concern of mine is that Survivor Mode might be the only way we'll be able to play solo/co-op against the AI. We should have full fledged AI support in all game modes so we have the freedom to practice or goof around alone or with a friend like we could in Pandemic's original Battlefront games. Not to mention, DICE's classic Battlefield games.

Lastly, more and more I get the feeling Y-Wings are strictly an AI support feature that can only be called in under specific circumstances. I swear, if Y-Wings aren't playable, I'm going to be SUPER PISSED.

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

Re: At Last! DICE to make the new SWBF!!!

Yeah, it did look like they are edging towards a little bit of COD perk style gameplay with killstreaks being awarded with perks like bomber based airstrikes, orbital bombardments and heavy weapon pick-ups, which is not a good development, that is what makes the Battlefield games superior to COD in my eyes, the ability to fly/drive pretty much anything on the map, and not have an asset just feature as an AI driven/scripted event. I'd be really annoyed if you found these ships unavailable too, at least if not in one game mode (due to the gameplay design of that mode) they should be made available in others.

There are other issues I have less of a problem with. I can totally understand why they've made AT-AT Walkers assets on rails and that when you play them you are effectively a gunner or commander. It is authentic, and you can just imagine how the immersiveness of a map will be ruined by some idiot driving one and trying to see if he can climb a mountain with an AT-AT, or see if he can emulate doing it doggy style with another walker or something. You know someone would try it.

lol

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28 (edited by mechag2 2015-06-17 06:13:57)

Re: At Last! DICE to make the new SWBF!!!

True, but the Battlefield series has always had idiots trying to do stupid stuff like that. lol It comes with the territory. There will always be players like that. It's actually the reason why I LOVE watching Chaboyy and Azzy. lol

Still, when you've got 2 teams of 32 players playing the objective on a large scale destructible map on foot and in various types of vehicles, it all comes together and there's nothing like it. The rush and excitement is just so freak'n EPIC and I think it's safe to say that is what we dreamed of for Star Wars.

Naturally, I was pretty irked by DICE's comment about including 40 player support rather than 64 because they didn't want to go with "an arbitrary number". *facepalm*

I can't see how making AT-AT's fully playable would be an issue with the terrain if they implement fully destructible environments and simply disallow movement to areas that's too extreme. Either way, I sincerely hope they give us cockpit view for it as well as the AT-ST.

Honestly, I think DICE is afraid of implementing much of what makes Battlefield so great because of a potential backlash from die hard Battlefront fans who've built up the original games in their mind as the be-all, end-all Star Wars games.

DICE's fear wouldn't be unfounded, though. Almost immediately after Battlefront was announced at E3'13, the internet was flooded with all kinds of snide, asinine remarks of it being a Battlefield reskin sold to us in a bajllion add-ons.

Regardless, Battlefield was always vastly superior, and the Battlefront series has a lot to gain from following in it's footsteps. DICE needs to recognize this as much as gamers do.

Somehow I don't think we'd be having this issue with DICE right now if they were the first ones develop Battlefront back in the day.

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.