Re: Take a moment

How did WW1 and 2 start over the middle east?? WW1 started with tensions in Europe between France and Germany due to Prussia beating France in 1876 or so, Britain being jealous of Germany's economy, and both Russia and Austria-Hungary trying to control the Balkans.

WW2 started mainly because of WW1.

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If I should die, think only this of me:
That in some corner of a foreign field
There lies a plagiarist.

Re: Take a moment

watch more discovery history channel and you'll know
oh and middle east isnt just iran/irac

Beta: Latin for "still doesn't work".
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Re: Take a moment

Us going into WWII wan't useless...They attacked us, and would've taken over Europe if we didn't get are arses in there.

Plus, we never would've known nukes existed if they didn't use em!

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11 (edited by BlasterFreak 2007-09-15 13:56:53)

Re: Take a moment

TIEpilot234 wrote:

Plus, we never would've known nukes existed if they didn't use em!

You can see it from a other point of view, had there not been a 2nd world war we might've eventually discovered the atomic bomb much later with different outcomes (Soviets might've invented it first and could've used it for intimidation). Now nukes serve as a safety-mechanism, if one uses it, all others will aswell (strategic balance). Lucky, nobody is foolish enough to scorch the earth, unless it's an act of desperation. I think you heard of the term MAD. If Nazi germany didn't exist back then, would the US/Soviets still would've collided in rivalry and invented it? Actually, it doesn't matter, it's here and the world has to deal with it. Somewhere along the line, to answer your quote, i think that we would've known of their existance because of a superpower merely wanting to show it's power and might to the rest of the world.

On to the future.

I sometimes think about WW3 and what might be the trigger to do it, if WW1/WW2 were about Europe, the next will surely take place in the Middle East. Either by a nuclear terrorist attack in the US with retaliation, or America attacking Iran because of suspicions, either way, i hope things wont get that far. Think about it, US forces are stretched thin across Iraq and Afghanistan, can they afford a 3rd war with all the consequences?

Sometimes i get that nasty feeling that nuclear warfare will eventually do us in. Some say WW3 started on 11 September and it is slowly building up to a larger conflict. Like Russia/China/Venezuela/Iran Vs Western EU/UN Countries. (Resource wars or other excuses)

We're living in interesting times, that's for sure. Say, are we even allowed to have political/historic debates on this forum? If we may not, i'll delete my post.

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Re: Take a moment

Well We started testing nukes in '42 I believe, so I wasn't a spur of the moment thing in '45 just to get Japan to surrender. But I can see what you mean when you say someone wanting to show off...But if we like to show off, wheres all our experimental technology that beats all of Japan's fancy robots? You know we have it...Where's those aliens in Area 51? I'm guessing if we hadn't used the nukes, they would have stayed under wraps. But you know...I can't find the link, but I saw this site that listed all the tests on nuclear weapons that the USA has conducted...And there's alot...more then 50, and thats USA...I'm sure if nukes could blow up the planet, they would have by now.

Founder, User, and Supporter of the First Strike Wiki!

13 (edited by FSDev| Dutch_Razor 2007-09-15 16:33:10)

Re: Take a moment

It's practially not possible for the US to fight the Chinese, everyone needs the products made in China, and in between all thier tough talk China needs all the money that generates.

Then the US also needs to borrow money from China to even maintain their economy, and the Russians can't even maintain all their nuclear submarines/reactors/weapons, let alone fight a war with them.

Using nuclear weapons would pretty much do everyone in and I hope noone is that stupid.

About the US showing off, if they had to invade Japan with marines, it would've cost thousands if not hundreds of thousands US soldier's lives, using a nuke and only taking Japanese lives makes perfect sense from a military point of view.

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14 (edited by BlasterFreak 2007-09-15 17:22:35)

Re: Take a moment

TIEpilot234 wrote:

Well We started testing nukes in '42 I believe, so I wasn't a spur of the moment thing in '45 just to get Japan to surrender.

But I can see what you mean when you say someone wanting to show off...But if we like to show off, wheres all our experimental technology that beats all of Japan's fancy robots?

You know we have it...Where's those aliens in Area 51? I'm guessing if we hadn't used the nukes, they would have stayed under wraps. But you know...I can't find the link, but I saw this site that listed all the tests on nuclear weapons that the USA has conducted...And there's alot...more then 50, and thats USA...I'm sure if nukes could blow up the planet, they would have by now.

The US/UK started investigation in the late 30's to find out more about nuclear weapons, and on a certain point the Manhattan project was born in '42. And succesfully tested in '45. So no, it wasn't, like i said, even without the war there might've been a point where WMD would be created, for defensive purposes only or propaganda, a feasible thing.

The US had it's rivalry with the Soviet union, which existed before Nazi germany, but that was a tension that involved military/espionage. Countries find more need to face eachother when it's vital or not to appear too weak, or to gain the upperhand with military or the world economy, there are many reasons for such cases of rivalry. But at this moment, i believe the US doesn't need to have skirmishes with Japan, which has been the leader of breakthroughs for some time now. Like you said for example in cybernetics. Japan today poses no danger to anyone, thus the US doesnt need to act as the big rival to them. When i look at the world today, i see more and more of Russia's older tendencies returning, like the time when Putin ordered bombers back on the same routes/patrols during the Cold war Era, or threatening to point Missiles at europe. Remember the US plans for a defensive shield near Russia?

As for any outside intelligent species, stop hoping for them to be revealed for quite some time if they exist, either for selfish reasons or because they think the world isn't ready for disclosure. Now these beings could choose for themselves to let the world know they exist, but that is a whole different subject.

And yes, there are alot of countries that have tested Nuclear weapons, and as for Nuclear powers on the world there are still enough to eradicate the globe many times over. Russia/US/Pakistan/Israel/India/North Korea(?)/UK/France and China, they all have nuclear weapons and some smaller tried to obtain them, South Africa and Iran(I have doubts). Former Soviet nations have returned these weapons to Russia of today. Best hope these weapons wont be used in an all-out war, because there wont be a bit left of this world that you would recognize.

The biggest danger with nuclear weapons in these days is nuclear terrorism, it takes just one to blow up and as a result martial law, mass panic and retaliation following. The US blaming Iran for that attack and as a result of thát shaking the world economy, import of oil, breaking lines with Iran's trading partners in the end. (Russia/China i believe) Next to that, just imagine the shock in everyone's mind and the disbelief, it would be 9/11 all over but a thousand times worse.

It's like a domino effect. And it's another step to the feared scenario of WW3. (I keep an eye on such things)

http://i.imgur.com/pkJ0Ygm.png