50 Reply by Talon1579 (edited by Talon1579 2007-01-05 05:31:17)

  • Registered: 2006-05-15
  • Posts: 728

Re: V-Wing and more

I say we stick to the flight sims for many details, especially X-Wing Alliance (being the latest one). Remember, most of the novels have based their stats loosely on that. The simple fact that a TIE Fighter can go faster than an X-Wing was probably invented by X-Wing, and that fact is used in almost every book. This fact was probably invented to make the TIEs more balanced against the rebel fighters.

If we start taking things from the film only- we have no idea how fast ships go, and a single X-Wing can take on at least 6 TIEs. Remember the emphasis here is on one-on-one combat. Unfortunately its difficult to fly in formation and work together in BF2142 due to their ridiculous VOIP system. Yes, it can be achieved with practice - but we want the game to appeal to the casual gamer.

To sum up (sorry for length): We want each fighter to have an equal chance of beating its counterpart. This should be done by giving Imperial fighters more speed and manouverability, like in the X-Wing series, to balnce out against the Rebel craft's shields and stronger hull.

edit: In fact, I posted a balance post designed to address this in this forum some time back. I'll try and find it. There we go: http://fsmod.com/fsforums/viewtopic.php?id=2697

--------------------------------------
If I should die, think only this of me:
That in some corner of a foreign field
There lies a plagiarist.

51 Reply by THX-1138 (edited by THX-1138 2007-01-05 18:24:32)

  • Registered: 2006-12-31
  • Posts: 221

Re: V-Wing and more

Well, Talon, that's a pretty balanced and fair statement and I must say I agree with that.

I mean, what I was trying to say, is you should use the most accurate source available. Now, if you have a choice between a game and a movie and the game obviously contradicts the movie (like, say the colour of bowcaster bolts -- RED, DAMN YOU!!) then obviously go with the movie.

But if you need information like the armament of a B-Wing, obviously you can't get accurate info on that in the movie, because in the movie it doesn't matter. (and in the movies we never even see the B-Wings shoot - just look cool) Those laser gun like prongy thingys on the tips of what appear to be wings of some kind could be for shooting confetti, or picking up PPV porno channels for all we know. (jokes)

I mean, we all know the true reason why X-Wing pwn TIEs is that the X-Wings are the hero ships. So follow the best stat info you can, because otherwise you end up having to integrate the stormtrooper equation into a video game!!

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q27/jack_napier_album/397dae2db19dfbffec6114d68e3861.png
    math

whereas n = the number of "bad guys", x = the number of "good guys", and J = the number of Jedi present, if any. The equation reads, "The probability of a bad guy hitting his target is equal to the inverse of all bad guys present plus the cube of the number of good guys present (plus one) plus the number of Jedi present (plus one) to the tenth power." From this, one can infer that the presence of a good guy has a detrimental effect on the bad guys' accuracy, while having even one Jedi present is a veritable death sentence.

haha, I have too much time!

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52 Reply by Demonic (edited by Demonic 2007-01-05 18:04:19)

  • Registered: 2006-02-07
  • Posts: 195

Re: V-Wing and more

So let me get this straight, if there are no bad guys, and no good guys, they'll still hit half the time?

This begs the question, what are they hitting?


Edit: I iz gud at grammer!

  • Registered: 2006-12-31
  • Posts: 221

Re: V-Wing and more

Demonic wrote:

This begs the question, what are they hitting?

and who's doing the shooting???:rolleyes::)

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  • Registered: 2006-02-07
  • Posts: 195

Re: V-Wing and more

Indeed.

  • mechag2
  • mechag2
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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2006-01-17
  • Posts: 373

Re: V-Wing and more

Demonic wrote:
THX-1138 wrote:

In the interests of accuracy and fair play - what's this LFL 1st party info you're talking about?

Well the films, novelizations of the films, the clone wars cartoons, etc

THX-1138 wrote:

I never recall Lucas saying anything himself on the armour ratings or weaponry of the ships in Star Wars.

No, he doesn't, but when the 'armor rating' given in a guide or game blatently contradicts observable performance from the movies, something tells me you should disregard it.

THX-1138 wrote:

And excuse me for using the The New Essential Guides as....well....Essential Guides...lol

(as for the inconsistencies, one thing I've noticed about the New Guides is a kind of half-hearted attempt to bind all SW material into canon, which produces weird theories and other strange passages the likes of which cannot be explained - so on that, I sort of understand you. But I interpreted the New Guides to be simply stating a kind of "what is considered canon now" now that LFL has sort of looked at everything and tried to sort it out)

I'm not saying they are completely wrong - but they should always be checked to make sure they aren't contradicted elsewhere, because they are quite a lot wink

Interesting books though.

That's exactly what I'm saying. wink

Although, I'm not talking about George Lucas exclusively, I'm also referring to his established source, LFL. LFL material has been released in the past that gives detailed info to supplement the films.

From my experience, the Essential Guide series have been put together rather sloppily and definately not definitive, but that's not to say that you can't get any good info from them. On the contrary, you can get quite a lot of good material from them. However, it mostly pertains to EU material.

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

56 Reply by FSDev| TALON (edited by FSDev| TALON 2007-01-05 18:52:35)

  • From: Manchester
  • Registered: 2006-11-03
  • Posts: 9,993

Re: V-Wing and more

Talon1579 wrote:

If we start taking things from the film only- we have no idea how fast ships go, and a single X-Wing can take on at least 6 TIEs. Remember the emphasis here is on one-on-one combat. Unfortunately its difficult to fly in formation and work together in BF2142 due to their ridiculous VOIP system. Yes, it can be achieved with practice - but we want the game to appeal to the casual gamer.

To sum up (sorry for length): We want each fighter to have an equal chance of beating its counterpart. This should be done by giving Imperial fighters more speed and manouverability, like in the X-Wing series, to balnce out against the Rebel craft's shields and stronger hull.

edit: In fact, I posted a balance post designed to address this in this forum some time back. I'll try and find it. There we go: http://fsmod.com/fsforums/viewtopic.php?id=2697

That's not entirely true. From the movies we know that Rebel fighters have shields, we know that standard TIE Fighters are faster than X & Y-wings as we see them outrun by them in the trench runs of ANH. Even at full throttle the X-wings fail to match the TIE's for speed. We also see that when a TIE Fighter manages to get on the tail of a Rebel fighter, due to the TIE's manouverability the Rebel pilot will have a very hard time shaking him off his tail. We also know that Rebel ships are of a sturdier design, you can take this from the visual cues in the design of the models, but you can also surmise this from the amount of fire it takes to take a Rebel fighter down when compared to the amount of fire it takes to take out a TIE. Usually one good clean shot will take out a TIE, compared to an X-wing or Y-wing being able to take a few shots while staying intact. It usually takes a concentrated sustained burst of fire to take out the Rebel ship. And all this can be gleaned just from watching the movies.

So there are some rules regarding these ships set up by the movies regardless of the games that have followed. We just have to find the happy medium between lore accuracy and good gameplay, without resorting to rubbish like giving TIEs shields and missiles, (SWBF2 anybody? roll) but there is already balance there as someone mentioned before...

Rebel fighters = Sturdy, shielded, slower ships with secondary weapons in the form of missile/torpedoes.

Imperial Fighters = Unshielded, faster, more manouverable ships.

We just have to work with that formula and get it balanced just right without going off the deep end.

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