1 (edited by Stevanyss 2007-02-06 16:22:36)

Topic: 'Gameplay' Queries

Hello, hello...I'm Stevanyss.

I have a volley of queries for you developer folks, or really anyone who knows.  Note the word "knows."  I don't welcome speculation in these instances, unless there are unfinished things which are planned to be a certain way, if you get my meaning.  Now, the answers are quite relevant to me, as I find the new game is lacking in comparison to its modern-day predecessor, and I see no acceptable shooters being released in the near-future.  And you know, I find it a bit surprising that I was unable to find the answers I was looking for, unless I simply missed them or didn't look hard enough.

And now I'll try and get to the point(s).  Keep in mind, any comments that may be dissing you developers of various positions are there with the idea of constructive criticism behind them.  I seek to open up to you new perspectives, that you might see their merit and improve yourselves, and therefore the products of your labors...

...Now, I beg your forgiveness in advance if I'm too verbose, as I often think I am...

- 1.  Alright.  Firstly, I've searched and searched, both on your web site and on these forums, and I've found nothing regarding the actual performance of any of the weapons.  That's of utmost importance to me, as I find that the weapons in the unaltered game are more than lacking, with the exception of the Voss.

What I suppose I mean to ask, exactly, is, ehhh...how will the weapons perform in comparison to the weapons in the unaltered game, mostly in regard to accuracy and recoil, standing, kneeling, prone, and while moving?  I find that all of the unaltered weapons are incredibly disappointing in the realm of accuracy, again with the exception of the Voss, and, now that I think of it, the support machine guns as well.  It seems to me that if I were gently strafing to one side or walking cautiously forward, I'd still be able to place my shot in such a way that it'd hit my opponent in the face, especially if I was looking through my scope.

And, associated with all this, and since I've just mentioned support weapons, I think I should ask if the First Strike support weapons be as silly as the ones available in the unaltered game.  By "silly," of course, I mean that they become more accurate as they fire.  Which makes absolutely no sense, and is ridiculous.  I almost completley prefer one of those for either sniper or assault rifle for that very quality.

Also of perhaps equal concern is the quality of the unaltered game's pistols;  I find they're grossly inaccurate even at close range, though again, primarily while moving.  Does it not make sense that a smaller weapon would be more easily controlled in the hands of a trained soldier, and therefore more accurate in terms of the game, especially at its optimum range (close ranger)?  I certainly think so.

On a similar note...I read in my search something about someone wanting "no weapon to be better than another" or something to that effect.  While I think this is a good doctrine, I should like to inquire if you all are taking proper measures to see that each individual weapon does in fact (and I say this because often developers seem to think they're doing such when they're really not...or perhaps they're just crazy) have its unique strengths and weaknesses, which would mean that individual players would prefer one particular weapon over another because it's more suitable to that player's play style (example:  I like precision, so I would take a slower, precise weapon, such as a sniper rifle, to a powerhouse that has trouble hitting the broad side of an AT-AT...though I have my exceptions).  Specialization is something that falls under this, as well, in which I mean that a support weapon should be able to put out a lot of fire power with little accuracy in order to keep the enemies' heads down, snipers should simply be snipers and therefore have very precise primary weapons, and assault would have a more medium-range weapon that can very seldom (and as a result of chance) perform effectively at long ranger.  I think this issue of "balance of weapons" in this sort of sense, for lack of a better way to put it, is my chief concern...

- 2.  Moving on...One thing I've noticed from periodically visiting the site and checking out the news is that you guys are modelling and skinning a lot of of stuff...and much of this stuff, to me, seems to be capable of serving little or no purpose.

There seems to be an incredible amount of weapons.  Now, that could actually be a good thing, if you could modify the unlock system so that higher-ranking people would have access to more weapons (which makes sense.  Raw Stormtrooper gets a standard E11, and as he climbs the ranks, he gets a little more freedom in what he chooses to arm himself with).  But since I've read that you apparently can't do that, it seems...pointless.  I've scrolled through screenshot after screenshot of weapon models, some of which seem like they're out-of-place, as if you've forgotten the genre the unaltered game is.  Perhaps a good example of that is the Ryyk blade I saw recenlty...I was totally like, "WTF?!!!?"  Unless there's a class whose model is a Wookiee, or perhaps a Wookiee faction, it might make sense that they'd carry a Ryyk blade in place of the knife (which I would imagine for both Empire and Rebellion would be a vibro-dagger).  Even then, though, it seems to be wasted effort.  Then I saw that WED Treadwell droid, and I couldn't imaging what it was  good for.  The sentry droid and the remote I could see as being replacements for the Accipiter drones, but a Treadwell...a utility droid...what war-time function could it possibly serve, and more relevantly, what role parallel to the Battlefield 2142 main game could it possibly fill?  Unless it's a sort of background thing, which again, seems like wasted effort.

However, things like the E-Webb emplacement make more sense, as, in the E-Webb's case, I imagine it'd replace the Rorsch Mk-S8 Rail Gun emplacement.  A worthwhile endeavor.

- 3.  Query three is short, I promise, because I realize now that it kind of goes with the first one:  Basically, replace "weapons" with "vehicles."  I'd like to know how the vehicles are going to perform in comparison with the 2142 vehicles.  Especially walkers.  Those things are so incredibly overpowering, and I certainly hope you folks won't do something like give the AT-ST anti-infantry, vehicle, and anti-air capacity equal to the walkers'.  It's good to have a variety of vehicle types, but if there's one vehicle that not only has the most armor and hitpoints, but also has unmatched killing capacity versus every unit type in the game, there's a problem.

Also sort of under this category is the question of the aircraft.  If memory serves, pretty much every aircraft in the Star Wars universe is capable of vertical take off and landing, as the gunships are in the unaltered game, but I wish to know if they'll manuever in the same way as the gunships.  It'd be very annoying if my TIE Fighter, as I was rolling it left, became stuck on its back because it thinks that, like the present gunships, it has permanent vertical thrust, which causes it to like to get stuck on its back if you roll it too far in either direction.

I'm also interested in how the different aircraft will vary in their "performance roles."  What I mean is the types of questions like, "what advantages and disadvantages does the TIE Interceptor have in relation to the standard TIE Fighter?"...You know..that sort of thing.


That's it for now, I believe.  I think I had one other thing I wanted to ask, but in my elaborating the previous queries, that final one has slipped from memory.  It'll come back to me eventually.  Anyway, I look forward to your answers.

- Stevanyss \steh-VAN-iss\ or \STEH-vuh-niss\
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9140/rynsig14elementalwaterawh4.png
"I was glad to find that mercy is a lie;  I'd rather be an honest man." - RYN-371

Re: 'Gameplay' Queries

Well we have a lot of Weapons yes and we are trying our very best to reflect a playable and true to lore weapon array. It is difficult should we succeed and we think we are making great progress then all is good if we fail we have room to manouvere and ALWAYS listen to our forum members.

As for an Unlock system well that may well be available who knows as yet, what I can tell you is that the players weapon kits are steadily being improved on build after build.

To be honest a lot of your questions are very inquisitive to our current state of play and we cant really say much more about them.

Just hold fire have faith and see what comes out in a week or two. smile

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Quote: Lafs1984 "He can't say no to an Ewok"
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Re: 'Gameplay' Queries

This mod isnt a cover for BF2142, its all new. Weapons and everything are totally new.

Also, there was a wookie class modelled.

All I can say right now is that the mod is shooting for movie canon, which means the devs are trying to make everything perform as it does in the movies.

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"Munchkin: One who, on being told that this is a game about politics and intrigue in 17th century Italy, asks to play a ninja."
Andrew Rilstone

Re: 'Gameplay' Queries

Welcome to the forums! I cant reveal too much about specifics at this point since things may change and some things are meant to be unvelied at another time, but I'll try to answer some of your concerns.

"It'd be very annoying if my TIE Fighter, as I was rolling it left, became stuck on its back because it thinks that, like the present gunships, it has permanent vertical thrust, which causes it to like to get stuck on its back if you roll it too far in either direction."

That wont happen. Each craft will have its own advantages and disadvantages that I wont get into right now, but some are more obvious than others if you know your Star Wars lore.

Yes, some things may seem to not serve a purpose but we assure you, everything has its place. The star wars universe is a very unique one and our goal is to immerse the player in this world. That means every detail must be there in the environment and audio to put you in the boots of a stormtrooper.

We are working our hardest to make sure every weapon has its niche and we are aiming to have the weapons and items compliment teamwork as much as possible. Its difficult to compare the weapons of 2142 to that of blasters, but all I can say is it will feel different from vanilla for sure.

Re: 'Gameplay' Queries

First off, welcome to our forums.  It's refreshing to find people on here that understand how to write coherent sentences as well as you do, so thank you for making your questions understandable and to the point.  I will attempt to answer your questions without violating our NDA, so forgive me if I can't say TOO much.

1.) As far as comparing the weapons in our mod to BF2142's weapons goes, don't even try.  While the basic class construction will most likely be similar to vanilla BF2142's, the weapon functionalities have been built from the ground up by our coders so they will definitely be unique.  I can't really comment on the specifics of our weapons' performance right now as they are still undergoing thorough and rigorous play testing, and being revised constantly to yield the best, and most fun, experience for you, the player.  Of course our goal is to make it such that each individual weapon has it's own set of circumstances in which it will perform better than another weapon, but again, this is determined by our testing as we can't really tell how things will balance out on paper.

2.) Yes, we are making A LOT OF STUFF.  I can confirm that, and while it may seem that all the little extra details, all the little droids, and even the star wars lore accurate piles of junk on the ground might be a "waste of time and effort", I must reply to that with our mission statement.  Our mission is to make the most lore accurate, the most movie accurate, and the most immersive Star Wars FPS to date.  One of our biggest challenges in this regard is adding all of the little things that make Star Wars what it is.  While that WED Treadwell droid might seem useless, it may fill a role that we have yet to announce (I must remind you that we are not only replacing BF2142's gameplay dynamics, we are creating new dynamics at the same time), or perhaps it will just be a part of the scenery in of the maps.  In any case, every object, no matter how small, will be made lore accurate to provide a deeper level of immersion, and if that causes us to "waste time", then I guess you can judge us on the final project.

3.) I can't go in-depth in this area, but I can probably confirm that the only defense that AT-ST will have agains't air vehicles will be the pilot's skill at trying to shoot down fast moving objects with a primarily anti-ground weapon.  It shouldn't be overpowered like BF2142's walkers.  In regards to the flight controls, they should function like the ships in the movies, not like the gunships in BF2142. Don't worry about rolling upside down and getting stuck.  On to the good stuff...advantages of fighters over other fighters.  Again, this will heavily depend on testing for the final specifics and tweaks, but I think I can answer your question in a more general way.  Our mod will be coding our ships according to their performance in lore, so I can describe how the various craft performed in the movies and lore.

Imperial Starfighters
TIE Fighter - General, all-purpose attack fighter, fairly quick and manueverable (slightly faster than the X-Wing), two laser cannons, very weak hull, available in large quantities.
TIE Bomber - Bomber, slow and not very manueverable, hull strength approx. equiv to 3x TIE Fighter's hull strength, two laser cannons, various payloads including missiles, torpedoes or bombs
TIE Intereceptor - Fast, interceptor class starfighter, very manueverable (slightly slower than the A-Wing), four laser cannons, hull strength approx. equiv to 1.5x TIE Fighter.
TIE Advanced - Very fast and manueverable (faster than the TIE Intercepetor, but still slightly slower than the A-Wing), first TIE Fighter to employ shields, hull strength and shields equiv. to A-Wing, rarely seen in combat until late in the GCW, two laser cannons, sometimes equiped with concussion missiles.

Rebel Starfighters
X-Wing - General, all-purpose space superiority starfighter, shields, torpedo launchers, four laser cannons, medium strength hull, slightly slower than the TIE Fighter, but still fairly manueverable.
Y-Wing - General purpose attack starfighter, relegated to bomber status after the X-Wing entered combat, slower than the X-Wing, slightly faster than the TIE Bomber, shields, stronger hull than the X-Wing, not very manueverable, two laser cannons, two ion cannons, torpedo launchers.
A-Wing - Fastest ship in the GCW at the time of production (there were faster vehicles later in the EU like the TIE Defender), highly manueverable interceptor class, two laser cannons, shields, concussion missiles, weak hull strength.
B-Wing - Late addition to the rebel fleet, very strong, very slow, approx the speed of the TIE Bomber, primarily an anti-capital ship starfighter, classified as a heavy bomber, strongest hull of all starfighters, shields, three laser cannons, three ion cannons, torpedo/bomb/missile launchers, not ver manueverable.

Hopefully this gives you answers to most of you questions, I look forward to more of your "inquiries",

-RedM

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Re: 'Gameplay' Queries

Ohh, I didn't expect such a fast response.  Neat.  Alright, let me respond, here...

FSDev| xEROhOUR wrote:

Well we have a lot of Weapons yes and we are trying our very best to reflect a playable and true to lore weapon array.

...I just hope you try to be very careful with being "true to the lore" in terms of the weapons.  There's a fine line, I think, between being true to the facts and making a fun, 'balanced,' for lack of a better term, game.  Or mod, in this case.  This is probably especially true of Star Wars universe weaponry and equipment, as all their stuff is not only built to kill in as many situations as possible, but it's also futuristic, so the limitations on them are bound to be less.  However.........

FSDev| xEROhOUR wrote:

Just hold fire have faith and see what comes out in a week or two. smile

...I will 'hold fire.'  I'm very curious as to how this thing's gonna turn out.

TY2D2 wrote:

All I can say right now is that the mod is shooting for movie canon, which means the devs are trying to make everything perform as it does in the movies.

I see that, now, and I think perhaps I should voice again a very broad suggestion to the developers, though I state again that I hope it was already in mind:  take care in balancing canon functionality with "fair and fun," which I think is a good way to put it.  Going all-out canon has the undesirable potential of creating a battle-environment lacking a good amount of balance.  Well, it'd be undesirable for me, at least.  Suppose some people wouldn't care.

Maybe this is a good time to mention an example many of you might be able to relate to:  Star Wars Battlefront and the Jet/Dark Troopers.  And I certainly hope you understand my meaning, there.

TY2D2 wrote:

Weapons and everything are totally new.

Yes, I know.  That's why I desire comparisons;  I'm hoping that the new weapons and the like will be not-as-crappy as the crap they threw together for 2142.

FSDev| JayBiggS wrote:

That wont happen. Each craft will have its own advantages and disadvantages that I wont get into right now, but some are more obvious than others if you know your Star Wars lore.

Ohhh, good.  Reassuring.  Of course, there'd be an exception with the 'flipping-over' thing in the case of repulsorlift aircraft such as the snowspeeder and V-Wing Airspeeder, yeah?

FSDev| JayBiggS wrote:

Yes, some things may seem to not serve a purpose but we assure you, everything has its place. The star wars universe is a very unique one and our goal is to immerse the player in this world. That means every detail must be there in the environment and audio to put you in the boots of a stormtrooper.

I see, I see.  A respectable goal, I think, so long as everything performs in good order.  Immersion is fun.  Actually, now that I think about it a little more, it ought to be assumed that you all are working to have everything fill its proper 'role';  what better way to feel immersed in a game of war than to have present the sort of realism which is...'this and that class with this and that weapon does this and that in the proper, fitting way'?

FSDev| JayBiggS wrote:

We are working our hardest to make sure every weapon has its niche and we are aiming to have the weapons and items compliment teamwork as much as possible. Its difficult to compare the weapons of 2142 to that of blasters, but all I can say is it will feel different from vanilla for sure.

And reassuring again!   big_smile

FSDev| RedMonkey999 wrote:

I will attempt to answer your questions without violating our NDA, so forgive me if I can't say TOO much.

NDA?  Ahh...now, that's definitely disappointing.  sad

FSDev| RedMonkey999 wrote:

1.) As far as comparing the weapons in our mod to BF2142's weapons goes, don't even try.

You folks really think you can't liken them to the 'vanilla' weapons?  A strange thing, to me, but I suppose I have to take your word for it.

FSDev| RedMonkey999 wrote:

I can't really comment on the specifics of our weapons' performance right now as they are still undergoing thorough and rigorous play testing, and being revised constantly to yield the best, and most fun, experience for you, the player.  Of course our goal is to make it such that each individual weapon has it's own set of circumstances in which it will perform better than another weapon but again, this is determined by our testing as we can't really tell how things will balance out on paper.

I see, I see.  Understandable...and accepted.  Again, I anxiously await future developments.

FSDev| RedMonkey999 wrote:

2.) Yes, we are making A LOT OF STUFF.  I can confirm that, and while it may seem that all the little extra details, all the little droids, and even the star wars lore accurate piles of junk on the ground might be a "waste of time and effort", I must reply to that with our mission statement.  Our mission is to make the most lore accurate, the most movie accurate, and the most immersive Star Wars FPS to date.  One of our biggest challenges in this regard is adding all of the little things that make Star Wars what it is.  While that WED Treadwell droid might seem useless, it may fill a role that we have yet to announce (I must remind you that we are not only replacing BF2142's gameplay dynamics, we are creating new dynamics at the same time), or perhaps it will just be a part of the scenery in of the maps.  In any case, every object, no matter how small, will be made lore accurate to provide a deeper level of immersion, and if that causes us to "waste time", then I guess you can judge us on the final project.

Mmmhmm, mmhmm.  Again, respectable goal, all that stuff I said in response to JayBiggs.  And I will almost completely parrot myself again in saying that such minor details may not be a waste of time as long as everything else is in order.  'Everything else' referring to combat-related things, that is.

FSDev| RedMonkey999 wrote:

3.)...but I can probably confirm that the only defense that AT-ST will have agains't air vehicles will be the pilot's skill at trying to shoot down fast moving objects with a primarily anti-ground weapon.

Ohh, that is most reassuring.  I can't tell you how annoying it is that to down a gunship, all you need to do is keep your crosshair on the target and spam your EMP missiles.  Necessity of skill...very good.  Very good indeed.

_____
Not going to comment much more on the aircraft;  I'm already aware of the various aircraft capabilities and armaments, and I think they're naturally well-balanced, for the most part, with the exception, perhaps, of missiles.  But that may just be me;  anything that locks on, I'm definitely not a fan of.  I like to have all scales of victory depend on one's ability...versus another's (although who's equipped with what, which in smaller scale victory would mean which kits or which class of aircraft or land vehicle, will have an effect...with that I see no problem).  Lock-ons, to me, seem to diminish that.
_____

Ah.  I hope I didn't miss anything I wanted to comment on.  But now to conclude...

Although I'm not entirely satisfied with these results, largely due to the existence of an NDA and the  apparent necessity for further weapon/vehicle testing, all of your feedback is still acceptable and appreciated.  A booming "thank you!" to you all.

- Stevanyss \steh-VAN-iss\ or \STEH-vuh-niss\
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9140/rynsig14elementalwaterawh4.png
"I was glad to find that mercy is a lie;  I'd rather be an honest man." - RYN-371

Re: 'Gameplay' Queries

After reading your post Stevanyss , I think you come up with some good points (mainly the bashing of bf2142 weapons) . However , I think your of the viewpoint that our mod will just be a reskin of BF2142. This mod is being built up ,from the ground . We are using the available code and restrictions but we arent thinking in terms of "what can we replace 'such 'n' such' with?"

As an example , you brought up the WED treadwell droid. This could be used as a vehicle repair droid ...tho i wont divulge whether we are or not wink .

Stay tuned!

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