Re: Singleplayer?

I'd be willing to help you work on some simple bot maps using the art assets the FS team dumps into the first official release, Dnamro.

I'm talking about a space dogfighting map or two, one with cap ships maybe, and a couple small, ground-based infantry maps suitable for LAN parties or online games between a couple human players.

I'll be in touch closer to release time.

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Re: Singleplayer?

Space maps should be quick and easy to add bot support, since they don't require navmeshing.   Some dogfighting maps would work great with bots.  Multiple variations of the dogfighting map with the different space craft that are offered could be good.   Small 16 player land maps are also easier to navmesh then the larger sized maps. 

I am thinking that instead of using black water as the bottom of the map to simulate space, it would be better to use a texturless landscape to simulate a moon or asteroid.   Having the bottom of the map that can be seen makes it easier to fly without crashing, and see other craft.  It also makes for a more exciting map if you have visual references to fly by and something to look at.   Empty space is just too boring.

Possibly, if a Deathstar map is released, it could be converted to a dogfighting map, using the deathstar as the bottom of the map and dogfighting above the deathstar.   Or possibly by using a metal plate texture on a flat landscape and adding some Deathstar like towers,  it could be simulated.   It would be a lot more fun to have space battles with the deathstar below, than empty space.

Flying over something that has gravity (such as a moon, large asteroid, or the deathstar) also helps to explain why the space fighters aren't capable of true zero g flight maneuvers like the starfuries in B5.

Re: Singleplayer?

Dnamro wrote:

I am thinking that instead of using black water as the bottom of the map to simulate space, it would be better to use a texturless landscape to simulate a moon or asteroid.   Having the bottom of the map that can be seen makes it easier to fly without crashing, and see other craft.  It also makes for a more exciting map if you have visual references to fly by and something to look at.   Empty space is just too boring.

....

Flying over something that has gravity (such as a moon, large asteroid, or the deathstar) also helps to explain why the space fighters aren't capable of true zero g flight maneuvers like the starfuries in B5.

You should check in with the FS devs, they've made a lot of progress since the days of 1942/BF2 smile

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Re: Singleplayer?

Dnamro ... A lot of what you mentioned is going to appear ... in one of the Beta's ...
We've come up with some interesting solutions to Space Maps, and even hacked a Skybox into 2142... No worries it's fun.. and the Deathstar.. well you'll just have to wait and see ...

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Re: Singleplayer?

From what has already been said on the forums, the Death Star map will feature the DS surface, with turrets and everything, as the map's surface. Hope you know what I mean.

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Re: Singleplayer?

I am thinking of possible AI issues that we had with GCX and some that I expect in FS, as well as some improvements in AI that will improve gameplay with bots in FS:

-  Bots would not fire a handweapon or any fixed weapon over deep water.  Shallow water worked.  Since the the space maps (including Deathstar) used black water at the bottom of the map, in order to get the bots to be able to use turbo lasers or sattelite weapons, I had to lower the water level and texture the land black.   Bots had no problem with vehicle weapons, only fixed weapons.   I had the same issue with Judicator.   When I first added bots, they would just stare at you.    I don't know if this will be a problem in FS.   

- Bots can't sense static objects in BF42, and aircraft had a hard time avoiding obstacles.   In GCX, bots had a hard time flying in Beggars Canyon, could not avoid asteroids, star destroyers and the space dock hangar on the space maps, crashed into the Cloud city on Bespin, and would fly into the Death Star structure because it was raised off the the actual bottom of the map to allow room for the trench.   In GCX, in order to work around these problems,  I had to move the deathstar structure as close to the bottom of the map as possible, move the cloud city above the usual flight range of the bots,  remove or move the asteroids out of the flight path, and move the star destroyers above the usual flight path of the bots.  GCX bots would even fly into capital ships once in a while, which is a limitation of the AI in BF42 only set to avoid smaller vehicles.   BF2 and BF2142 bots seem to avoid obstacles better then BF42, so I don't know how much of a problem this will be yet.

- Bots seldom die from a fall in BF42.   Which means that on a space or Bespin map, with bots falling from a platform or ejecting out of a ship, they will stick around at the bottom of the map.  In BF2/2142 infantry bots can not exist outside of their navmeshed areas, so if they fall they will die.   On space/air-craft only maps which do not use a navmesh for the bots, a small infantry navmesh can be added to a corner of the map so that any bot that ejects will die.   So, bots surviing at the bottom of the map should not be a problem in FS.

- Bots target the center of vehicles in GCX, which meant that they would fire at the legs of the ATAT and ATST.   If shot at from the side, bots would under the belly of the ATAT and the NebulonB, completely missing.   Bots seem to fire at the Mech's torso on BF2142, so I don't expect this to be an issue in FS.

- Bots can use multiple level structures as long as they can move between the levels.   Bots could use the Bespin cloud city structures a lot better in FS then they could in GCX.  Bots can use stairs, but not elevators or ladders effectively.   In fact, the AI is hard coded to avoid using ladders in BF2 and 2142.   So, in order to reach different levels, they will need a stairway.   But, if Judicator was ported to FS from GC, bots could not use the elevators to get to the command deck.  A stairway would have to be added to the map.   

- In BF42, bot paths are 2d, so paths can not cross over themselves, or you have bots running into obstacles.   In BF2/2142 bots use navmeshes which are 3d, so bots can use paths that cross over themselves.  Bots can use multiple levels of structures. Which means all of the cloud city in Bespin could be used by bots.   The center flag in Beggars canyon that could only be reached by a bridge could be captured by bots.   It just makes maps more accessible to bots.

- Bots in BF2142 can jump over small obstacles, which opens up even more areas that bots can get to.

Re: Singleplayer?

Sorry for going a little off topic here...

But I was wondering about this earlier, do you have to know how to model to navmesh a map?

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