1 (edited by Canadiens1160 2008-06-24 17:40:45)

Topic: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly

Let me preface this by saying yes, this is a rant, and no, you shouldn't take it completely seriously.  That said I want to rant, so here I go.


Tanks are crap right now.

I really don't like the restrictions on some FS vehicles.  The tanks especially.

After a couple of weeks to play with them, it kind of seems like, "Here are some AWESOME tanks....but anything that the average player would want to have fun in one is nerfed to the point of frustration!"  Stuff like the limited height and rotation on the Imp tank positions, the weird, artillary-like nature of the Rebel tank salvos, and even the uphill speed makes them the vehicular combat equivalent of a group of quadriplegics sparring in a tub of molasses.

Did ANYONE enjoy the tanks in Battlefield 1942: Road to Rome?  Hell no.  People don't enjoy rotation/height restrictions.  The tanks in Battlefield 1942 were awesome.  You could kill the regular ones with ONE HIT from a rocket behind.  They were powerful, they were vulnerable without teamwork, they were perfect.  If anything should be a guide as to how to implement tank combat, it should be that.

Hell, the Rebel tank doesn't even feel like a tank or artillary piece.  It feels like a frigging upwardly mobile bathtub that fires large nebulous globs that may or may not do anything.  Super bombad?  No.


Bombing is crap right now

Eliminating the chance of dive-bombing in a Y-Wing or TIE Bomber and the possibility of adding a height restriction to the Ryloth map are two ways of sucking fun out of the combined arms maps.

You want to reward skilled pilots, by making it possible to swoop in and lay down a precision strike, while making it pretty hard to do that with powerful anti-aircraft options for the people on the ground.


Withering fire

The concept of withering fire is great.  I love the fact that I...THE LOWLY HEAVY ASSAULT CLASS, can actually do significant damage to an ATST or even take it down, with just a puny laser gun.

That said.....now that the mod is starting to try and implement combined arms maps, it seems like withering fire is proving a failure for combined arms.  Tank battles seem ham-fisted, the fighter/bombers are better suited to circling aimlessly until they get shot down by airspeeders, and the worst part is....

The "lucky shot" is no more.  How exciting is it, in an online multiplayer game, to see a crazy fluke or skill shot happen right in front of you.  Whether it's a long-distance rocket launcher shot that arcs into the weak back armour plate of a tank and destroys it in one hit, or a glancing hit to an air vehicle engine, withering fire as a concept eliminates the most exciting of exciting, movie-like moments.


There aren't enough space maps

I don't even count Convoy Raid as a space map in its current state.  It sucks having to wait for a server to drag itself through four or five ground maps with four players per team to get to a space battle.  The balance of the first release was a bit too space-mapey, and now it swung WAYYY too far back the other way.


There are too many Tatooine and Endor maps, and unfortunately none of them suck balls enough to justify leaving out of the next release

Self-explanatory.

~

Anyway, this isn't meant to be a mean thread or a derogatory thread.  I am trying to point out some things that I think are basic flaws in the current release and spark some discussion from the player base.  Let's keep it civil and let me hear your thoughts on gameplay

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Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly

Tanks are crap right now.

I'm not sure whether you are advocating height restrictions or not here. You seem to feel that tanks shouldn't be able to endure as much fire as they do now. I'd agree with that.

My bone with tank v tank combat now is that rebels are forced to rush up close and circle like crazy to try get max damage with missiles and to avoid firehawkes main gun. This isn't hard to do, it just looks dumb. It also feels awkward.
The rebel tanks on Ryloth have anto aircraft capabilities and can start contributing the momemt you jump in them, whereas imperial tanks have a long slow uphill drive under fire from airspeeders to the nearest point.
Heaven help you if you spawn and theres no tanks or speeders as the walker is only slightly faster than running and the ties and lambda are a one way ticket.




Bombing is crap right now

Bombing IS crap right now. Making bombers an actual danger to ground units would be nice.


Withering fire

I think its good, but dedicated AT guns should definitely do more damage. Blowing up a walker with a support guy's proton grenades is a cinematic moment- I think 2 of them should kill a walker.

There aren't enough space maps

There aren't, but varying space maps can be hard with the engine. More imagination is required. Yavin is a substantially different map and it can suck sometimes if its laggy or if theres just not enough players.
Imperial convoy raid is an interesting map- I don't see why you don't count it as a space map. It can be over quick but requires some furious organisation and self control to not just grab fighters and spam missiles.

I would like to see more space maps tho.

There are too many Tatooine and Endor maps, and unfortunately none of them suck balls enough to justify leaving out of the next release

True. I find Tatooine maps are the most straightforward meat grinding maps- players squad up, form attack/defense lines and shoot each other. Is 2 Endor maps too much?


Basically- I just want my tank fights to seem less silly, my fighter targeting brackets back and Ryloth to be more balanced(whether through redesign or issuing Imperials with less defective ties).

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Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly

Yeah, I was referring to substantial restrictions on aiming the first and second position guns on the Reb and Imp tanks.

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Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly

TBH I agree with it all exept the lack of space maps. Theres enough for me. Id also like to re-enforce the fact that BOMBING is terrible.

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Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly

Tanks
Only problem I have with the tanks is the fact that the gunner position on the Firehawke could have a little more room on the vertical axis. Though I believe it's how it is now to avoid the clipping of that as in GC. The T1-B could have the same done to it's AP turret as well. The driving position weapon is mainly for AA and not actual anti-tank purposes, it just kinda works out that way when you get close enough... or right on an enemy tank.

Bombing
Bombing is quite fine actually, I know I said in another thread (tester section most likely) that I hated it.. but after using it a little I'm used to it. It's a nice view though my only gripe is that there should something to you can tell how much you are rolled to a side or if you are perfectly straight in that aspect.

Maps
I honestly do believe there are enough space maps for the time being, based on what is available to play with. Switching to the other areas, only two Endor maps is fine. In addition there are only three Tatooine maps and for the most part Mos Espa and Bestine are amazing game play wise and Mos Entha isn't a bad play every now and then either. In fact Entha is a nice change of scenery you could say due to it being at night as apposed to daytime as the other two are.

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6 (edited by FSDev| TALON 2008-06-25 08:37:35)

Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly

I agree with a lot that has been said, I'm not keen on the current balance of the tanks as I have said before in the past countless times, they are just too powerful against all other units except on Ryloth, and tank on tank weapons fire feels like you are using a peashooter for all the power they have. Ryloth is also poorly balanced thanks to the Airspeeder being so good, the Imperial's TIE Fighters and AA weaponry being quite lacking, and the infantry based rocket launcher being seriously nerfed (there is no way it should take as many torps as it currently does to take down a fighter), also the bomber is pretty buggered right now, though it is that tough that hardly any ground units can deal with it anyway. I shot one with a Firehawke's main gun and it didn't go down, which is ridiculous, didn't even start smoking. All these issues need balancing to make Ryloth work better in my opinion.

The space map ground map balance is quite alright at the moment, and I don't really see how you feel the balance in this case was okay with the first release but not now. The ratio is pretty much the same with 2 space and 3 ground maps in the first and an additional 2 space maps and 5 new ground maps, but 1 of those is kinda on the fence as Ryloth still features air combat being a combined arms map so I'd say 2.5 space maps and 4.5 ground maps with the latest release which is pretty much the same ratio.

Anyhow a lot of these issues of balance will be addressed in the next release as resolving balance issues with the current content in the mod is our top priority right now so give as much feedback as possible as it is all relevant to the continuing development of the mod.

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Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly

FSDev| TALON wrote:

Ryloth is also poorly balanced thanks to the Airspeeder being so good, the Imperial's TIE Fighters and AA weaponry being quite lacking, and the infantry based rocket launcher being seriously nerfed (there is no way it should take as many torps as it currently does to take down a fighter)

Amen to that!  The Airspeeders are way to powerful and maneuverable on Ryloth compared to the TIEs, and they shouldn't be able to take down tanks so easily, unless the tanks are equipped with some kind of anti-aircraft capability (like the walker in 2142).
The Rebs can so easily own Ryloth with just Airspeeders alone, especially one in the hands of an experienced player (yes Krow, I mean you! tongue). They slow and hover too easily, and their firepower is immense, rendering the TIE bombers and the Lambda shuttle on the map virtually useless.

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