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15 Reply by Bandu 2008-06-27 14:34:50 (edited by Bandu 2008-06-27 14:35:23)
- Bandu
- Ron Paul for Prez!
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- From: Manchester , UK
- Registered: 2006-01-15
- Posts: 5,867
Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly
Canadiens1160 wrote:Safe-Keeper wrote:So basically, your complaint is that FS is not a run-and-gun shooter, but actually, for shame, tries to stay true to the SW universe while encouraging teamwork and an actual effort. This in a universe where FS is a welcome breath of at least a small amount of realism and teamwork while every single current SW game is aimed at an audience of players who don't want to engage more than 2% of their brains when playing. Well, guess what, /me think u r wrong. kthxbai.
With an attitude like that you're welcome to go putts around with two other people on the only populated server, SK. The argument for "realism" (whatever the hell that means, considering this is a fantasy movie universe populated with small midget teddy bear characters) is great except for a couple key points: * The Battlefield engine is a squeezey pooh FPS engine; it always has been, it always will be. If you want a good engine to promote realism go mod something else yourself. * The main and huge majority demographic who play BF are looking for fun, fast, not-frustrating pick up and play gameplay with a good mix of vehicles and infantry...THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR WEIRD, UNDOCUMENTED GAMEPLAY MECHANICS and VEHICLES THAT TAKE 8+ DIRECT ARTILLARY HITS TO TAKE DOWN FROM THE SAME CLASS VEHICLE ON THE OPPOSING TEAM * This is a fantasy movie universe populated with small, furry teddy bears. So let's review: 1) Take a game splintered off a successful franchise with a relatively small player base 2) Lose a large percentage of possible players due to EA's incompetence and uneven patching, which limits the possible new player pool to an even smaller number 3) Alienate the majority of new players due to several core gameplay quirks and balance issues 4) Have several prominent community members prance around the forums pining for the mod to embrace extreme, frustrating realism as "Project Reality X: Galactic Conquest" 5) Have a certain Dev destroying the flow/fun of matches by continuously flying transports around in loop da loops , crashing and killing teammates as a result. There's one fricken' populated server with around 16 people on a BUSY night. You CAN NOT justify that as being completely due to summer holidays, Euro 2008, global warming, the phase of the moon, and a small BF2142 player base. Comments like yours are just ignorant and if you want to go play on that three player server with your head up you ash then be my guest. ~ I'm not asking for the starfighters to have a one-button special move that flips you around three times, I'm asking for the tanks not to be total crap, SK. Give me a little more phucking credit that than, man.
See bold ^ THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR WEIRD, UNDOCUMENTED GAMEPLAY MECHANICS and VEHICLES THAT TAKE 8+ DIRECT ARTILLARY HITS TO TAKE DOWN FROM THE SAME CLASS VEHICLE ON THE OPPOSING TEAM
YOU'RE A DEV AREN'T YOU? DOCUMENT THE UNDOCUMENTED GAMEPLAY MECHANICS IF IT BUGS YOU ENOUGH TO GO ON A CAPS-LOCK RAMPAGE!!1!onehundredand11  /pines for the mod to embrace extreme, frustrating realism .
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavours to live at the expense of everybody else." Frédéric Bastiat

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- Banned Forever
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- Registered: 2007-09-06
- Posts: 692
Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly
We can't do anything about balancing the tanks. We tried before but Woodrow came in and made it the way it is. If we make it balanced again woody will just come back again.
17 Reply by Athlon 2008-06-27 15:30:51 (edited by Athlon 2008-06-27 16:58:55)

- Athlon
- Sith Apprentice
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- From: Coventry UK
- Registered: 2008-01-23
- Posts: 600
Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly
Whats with the bitching everyone. The game is what it is... Adapt and overcome, its the way we humans do things. We all love a challange don't we? Alter the way you approach each situation and cause the enemy pain, even tho the odds are stacked against you. Make it too easy and you just make things boring 
"Something something something Dark Side.. Something something something Complete!" 
- From: Grong, Norway
- Registered: 2006-07-25
- Posts: 5,192
Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly
To address some of the points in the rant in a more civil manner. Firehawke anti-infantry laser cannon: Lore-wise, as far as I know, the laser cannon was placed where it's placed in FS. This means it can't be allowed to traverse high, as it'll then clip the main gun, which looks silly, or lower, as it'll then shoot through the hull, which is equally silly. It looks aesthetically good where it currently is, so a far better solution than moving it, as I've already said, is to swap control of the weapons between gunner and driver. This is how the mod already handle other guns with limited firing arcs, namely on the AT-ST and T1-B - they're given to the driver of the vehicle. T1-B Missile Pod: The T1-B and Firehawke, as it stands, are two completely different vehicles: the Firehawke is a heavy tank that excels at long range attacks, while the T1-B needs to get up close and personal to do damage. This means the two vehicles are distinct and that we have actual maneuvers going on rather than two tanks sitting still shooting at one another. No problem there. Tank Speed: The Firehawke is a heavy tank. Heavy tanks move slowly. That simple. Cap ships, too, feel awfully slow, the player base still puts up with them. And FS isn't all about tankers themselves, but just as much about infantry, and watching a platoon of enemy tanks come gliding towards your fortress on Ice Plains while exchanging fire feels so incredibly epic, and wouldn't have if they moved in at high speed. Tank vulnerability: Maybe there should be a "lucky shot" feature that allowed you to take out a tank or at least significantly damage it if you hit it in one of those lucky spots. I can agree with that. And tank-vs-tank damage should be reduced a bit. Infantry-vs-tank damage should be left alone, or only slightly reduced. They're armoured fighting vehicles, for crying out loud, they should be able to withstand lots of damage. Rebel tank doesn't feel like a tank: Well, that's not really a surprise since it strictly speaking isn't one in the traditional sense. It's a light tank, not a Main Battle Tank, aimed at taking out infantry and aircraft. Bombing is **** and the fun is sucked out of Ryloth: What's sucking the fun out of Ryloth is the plethora of aircraft. Whenever a round of Ryloth starts, both teams dive straight for their aircraft to scrap it out in the sky, leaving ground vehicles behind and thus ensuring that virtually no ground battle takes place. I like to call it the El Alamein syndrome (after the BF1942 map) - Ryloth is supposed to be a combined arms map, but plays more like a parody of Battle of Britain as "everyone" not only go aircraft, but go aircraft that fly incredibly fast and can climb infinitely high and then dive down on you. The number of aircraft need to be reduced drastically. Dive bombing: I seem to remember that dive bombing was taken out because bombers wrecked everything on the map in our test sessions. Which of course isn't fun at all - to anyone else than the bomber pilot. Space maps: Space maps are really easy to make, so yes, let's add more of them, particularly at least one boarding map, as this is something a huge portion of our player base wants. A "Destroy the Star Destroyer" mission (Imperial Star Destroyer-led task force vs. Rebel task force trying to punch through the ship's shield sections and destroying key hardpoints such as sensor domes, reactor, comms tower, engines, command deck, etc.) is another oft-requested concept that I'd also love to see . And let's not forget the Battle of Endor, which could consist of several maps (the initial dogfight in which Imperial fighters take on the Rebel fleet while the Imperial cap ships wait off map, blocking the Rebels' escape; and the Rebel fleet's attack on the Star Destroyers; the tunnel run, which could feature the DS II's surface and a network of tunnels leading into the large "room" with the reactor core; and finally the attack on the SSD Executor. That's four maps right there. If you ask me, the biggest problem of this mod is the lack of teamwork. Forcing squads would've gone some way towards fixing that (and eliminated the use of the "I get locked stuff even though I'm not in a squad, goody for me!" exploit that makes some people shun squads instead of joining them, as they have the idea that joining a small squad will make them lose access to their shiny toys), but unfortunately it was shot down, and now, even though there simply is literally no reason to not squad up, we've got a significant number of people who don't do it. FS is a teamwork-oriented mod. So many aspects of it, from withering fire to devices and weapons locked off to lone wolves not in squads to the push mode, are implemented to make the game more teamwork-oriented and focused. The result? People play it the way they'd play Battlefront 3. I'd also like to see the mod become "deeper", with vehicles given more abilities than just moving and shooting. Things such as deploying weapons, mines, or supply crates, popping smoke, firing different kinds of ammunition, special abilities triggered by the X key, etc. The more of that we have, the better. The argument for "realism" (whatever the hell that means, considering this is a fantasy movie universe populated with small midget teddy bear characters)
I don't follow. PR, too, is fictional, and is still realistic.
"One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage." --the awesomeness that is Boatmurdered.
- From: Waterford, Ireland :)
- Registered: 2007-07-18
- Posts: 2,064
Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly
Safe-Keeper wrote:Bombing is **** and the fun is sucked out of Ryloth: What's sucking the fun out of Ryloth is the plethora of aircraft. Whenever a round of Ryloth starts, both teams dive straight for their aircraft to scrap it out in the sky, leaving ground vehicles behind and thus ensuring that virtually no ground battle takes place. I like to call it the El Alamein syndrome (after the BF1942 map) - Ryloth is supposed to be a combined arms map, but plays more like a parody of Battle of Britain as "everyone" not only go aircraft, but go aircraft that fly incredibly fast and can climb infinitely high and then dive down on you. The number of aircraft need to be reduced drastically.
While aircraft do indeed need to be reduced the reason that the players dive for the aircraft is because of the huge distance to the nearest CP.
First strike, playing from day one: SirKillsalot30
Resident Metal Gear Solid fan
- Registered: 2008-05-27
- Posts: 81
Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly
*Round of applause for Canadiens1160* Stardestroyersarecool wrote:Safe-Keeper wrote:Bombing is **** and the fun is sucked out of Ryloth: What's sucking the fun out of Ryloth is the plethora of aircraft. Whenever a round of Ryloth starts, both teams dive straight for their aircraft to scrap it out in the sky, leaving ground vehicles behind and thus ensuring that virtually no ground battle takes place. I like to call it the El Alamein syndrome (after the BF1942 map) - Ryloth is supposed to be a combined arms map, but plays more like a parody of Battle of Britain as "everyone" not only go aircraft, but go aircraft that fly incredibly fast and can climb infinitely high and then dive down on you. The number of aircraft need to be reduced drastically.
While aircraft do indeed need to be reduced the reason that the players dive for the aircraft is because of the huge distance to the nearest CP.
That and that getting in any Imperial getting in a land vehicle is a death trap since a Airspeeder can hover above you and kill ya in 5-10 seconds flat. Where it takes 30 seconds or so to take them out with the marginal damge that can be delt out and the difficulty to hit them. Funny how little blaster cannons do much more DPS to a heavly armored vehicle (Firehawk) then a Proton Torpedo or another tank does to it..... Team work is encuraged when their is a well known weak spot on a certian side of a enemy vehicle. Even with that spot being a One shot kill with a Proton Torpedo launcher (Same power as a tank round, or should be). You get your teamates to lure them off while you sneak around back to shoot them up the tailpipe. Or if your in the tank, you get teamates to stick close to you to help watch your back. Right now tanks and such can go strolling into enemy territory with no worrys about whats behind them. This leads to a Shitload of solo vehiclists in every map I have played. Text or Voice-Over tooltips would be a MAVILOUS addition to the game. When ever you get in a vehicle or switch to a weapon or use a kit for the first time, you get a message telling you what it does exactly. So much of the game is hidden and not their for the people who just download it to try it out, it gets really frustrating really fast. That leads to people thinking the game is overly SIMPLIFIED and unpolished. They then uninstall with their opinion set on the mod. And don't come back with the old line of "Oh, well mabey they shouldn't just pick up the game and play, they should have gone to the website and read the pages upon pages of manual about every weapon/vehicle/kit in the game first.".... 80%-90% of gamers just pick up the game to play it, not to read a novel about it or try to join the online community.
- From: Montréal, Canada
- Registered: 2006-03-23
- Posts: 1,184
Re: ITT I rant about vehicles, mostly
Thanks for the detailed responses SK, it was a good read and I appreciate it  Ryloth, unfortunately being the only true go at a combined arms map in the mod at the moment, suffers a lot. There are just too many air vehicles in the map. The Imperial team will take all the fighters and the shuttle, the shuttle will be shot down, no one will try to cap the first base which is too far away to begin with....etc. The airspeeders' hovering ability is definitely overpowered and I think they would be fine if they behaved more like starfighters, physics-wise. They should need to maintain more forward momentum to stay in the air, and they should be strafing tanks, not hovering above em. I agree with you on the more space maps, more space maps, more space maps. When you have a big fight going on Escape From Hoth and both teams are focused on a singular objective, it's a sight to behold as you fly in with your X-Wing wingmates. ~ As far as tank combat, I think it suffers because of the fact that the Rebel and Imperial tanks are quite different, to be honest. If we had two classes of tanks per side, one regular tank and one arty piece, things would be different. The way it is now, however, the tank combat is just awkward. Look at how elegantly-balanced the starfighter combat is. It's because, despite lore, each fightercraft is balanced in-game perfectly with another fightercraft on the opposing team. They were designed to have a counterpart from the start, and that is why there aren't huge balance issues on a space map if you dole out the same amount of vehicles to each side.
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