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Posts: 22 to 28 of 43
- From:
- Registered: 2007-05-18
- Posts: 260
Re: Im like a star wars Dictionary. Ask me anything star wars
Adding young Anakin to the return of the jedi blue ghost scenes with old ben and yoda. that kinda ticked me off..and they were using the force.. so my conclusion.
Do..or do not, there is no try !
- Bandu
- Ron Paul for Prez!
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- From: Manchester , UK
- Registered: 2006-01-15
- Posts: 5,867
Re: Im like a star wars Dictionary. Ask me anything star wars
Slimshiesty wrote:Adding young Anakin to the return of the jedi blue ghost scenes with old ben and yoda. that kinda ticked me off..and they were using the force.. so my conclusion.
I know, from Lucas' POV, it was to tie in the prequels with the OT, but it makes sense in a way since that was how Anakin was before turning into Vader.
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavours to live at the expense of everybody else." Frédéric Bastiat
- Registered: 2008-07-18
- Posts: 54
Re: Im like a star wars Dictionary. Ask me anything star wars
He still could of chosen a better actor and had less cheesy lines.
- Registered: 2007-10-02
- Posts: 237
Re: Im like a star wars Dictionary. Ask me anything star wars
Re: Force and religion. In the last British census, more than 100,000 people recorded their religion as 'Jedi'! Formerly, that was a sufficient number for the 'religion' to be officially recognised, but the government decided it was merely the result of a well-publicised internet campaign and did not recognise it. I always thought Jar Jar Binks was supposed to be the biggest turn-off for OT fans, but personally I never found him any more annoying or improbable as a character than C3-PO. Mr Lucas had a whole new generation of kids' imaginations to capture and Jar Jar Binks was ideal for that purpose. Midichlorians inconsistent with the OT? Indeed they were, but the OT is full of inconsistencies anyway. What about the clear implication that Grand Moff Tarkin is Darth Vader's superior in Episode IV? Leia accuses him of "holding Vader's leash" and he clearly gives Vader at least one order. What about "Lando Calrissian and poor Chewbacca never returned from this awful place" uttered by C3-PO in Episode VI? Minutes later we see Jabba addressing Lando by name just after Chewbacca arrives with Leia in disguise! There are many more, but I've never let them stop me enjoying what was above all a bloody good yarn. What really irked me about Episodes I-III was the notion that in an otherwise enlightened society, the Jedi were supposed to live a celibate, monk-like existence. Without wishing to upset anybody, we should all know by now that religious institutions which insist on celibacy tend to become hives of sexual deviancy, and that fact really coloured my thinking about the Jedi. Lucas was dead wrong to do that, and should have come up with a better way of engineering Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. Mind you, the celibacy does explain why there are too few Jedi – the silly buggers refused to breed! When I first saw Episode I, I fully expected Anakin's supposed 'immaculate conception' by the force to cause a furore, but if it did, it was small enough for me not to notice. Anyway, AcePhoenix, 1/10 for effort and 8/10 for bluffing!
  Mmm... vanilla!
- From: Manchester
- Registered: 2006-11-03
- Posts: 9,993
Re: Im like a star wars Dictionary. Ask me anything star wars
Bandu wrote:Slimshiesty wrote:Adding young Anakin to the return of the jedi blue ghost scenes with old ben and yoda. that kinda ticked me off..and they were using the force.. so my conclusion.
I know, from Lucas' POV, it was to tie in the prequels with the OT, but it makes sense in a way since that was how Anakin was before turning into Vader.
That could be one point of view, and a valid reason for the change, but it does seem to go against the whole idea of Vader/Anakin's redemption and return to the light. The whole point is that at the end he has turned back to the light side of the Force. Therefore his Force ghost should really be the older Anakin to reflect the fact that the older Anakin had been redeemed, rather than turning back the clock 20 years to when he was last a good guy it should be celebrating the fact that he was now once again a good guy. Of course this is just my opinion and the argument easily goes either way on this subject. RabidJohn wrote:Midichlorians inconsistent with the OT? Indeed they were, but the OT is full of inconsistencies anyway. What about the clear implication that Grand Moff Tarkin is Darth Vader's superior in Episode IV? Leia accuses him of "holding Vader's leash" and he clearly gives Vader at least one order. What about "Lando Calrissian and poor Chewbacca never returned from this awful place" uttered by C3-PO in Episode VI? Minutes later we see Jabba addressing Lando by name just after Chewbacca arrives with Leia in disguise! There are many more, but I've never let them stop me enjoying what was above all a bloody good yarn.
There are indeed inconsistencies in the OT, but none of the examples you give here really qualify. Grand Moff Tarkin was superior to Vader at the time of A New Hope (from a certain point of view). The New Order at this time was still evolving, and despite the fact that obviously as far as Palpatine was concerned Vader was second only to him, he still had to keep the military in line as this was the key to his power over the galaxy, he still had to maintain all the beauracracy that any leader has to deal with to keep the cogs of his new society turning, don't forget that many (if not almost all) still didn't know about the Sith, let alone that he was in fact one. So yes he pandered to the needs of the Military, and the politicians for a time, remember Palpatine has only just dissolved the Senate during the time of A New Hope. Vader had no military rank and therefore fell outside the chain of command, officially going by the title of Emperor's Emissary, almost little more than an advisor and the eyes and ears of the Emperor (at least as far as the Military High Command was concerned). The Military had little respect for him at this time as he was little more than the Emperor's favoured pet. So this is where Tarkin comes in, who knew better. He was a member of Palpatine's inner circle, being a close conspirator with Palpatine for some time. Being in the chain of command Tarkin at this point was definitely the guy in charge on the first Death Star with more authority than Vader. It was only after the Empire's defeat at the Battle of Yavin and the Imperial Navy has to go seriously on the offensive that the kid gloves come off. Similar to the Emperor's taking of power in the Clone War crisis the Emperor increases Vader's authority giving him a fleet with which to pursue the elusive Rebel threat, and the Sith now show their true colours leaving the Imperial Military in no illusions as to where they now stand in the pecking order. As for Lando and Chewie never returning from Jabba's Palace? This is true to a point and also due to the limited knowledge that C-3PO had at the time, remember that he has not been told all of the details of the plan to rescue Solo, in fact he is pretty much totally in the dark regarding the plan in it's entirety, probably for the best considering he could spill the beans in any of six million forms of communication. Lando and Chewie did indeed travel to Jabba's Palace, Lando is still there in disguise after months spent undercover getting into Jabba's entourage of thugs and villains. So truth be told he has never returned from this awful place as he is still there. As far as Jabba addressing Lando by name? I have no idea where you got that from, but he doesn't, the guy is in disguise as a skiff guard, and doesn't break from that disguise until the battle over the Sarlacc pit. As for Chewie this is where the failing comes in 3PO's knowledge of the plan, the last he knows of him is that he and Lando were heading to Jabba's Palace to rescue Han, so as far as he knows Chewie never returned. In reality Chewie rendezvous with Leia and together they facilitate their way into the Palace. Look to the comics and novel of Shadows Of The Empire for more details regarding this. RabidJohn wrote:What really irked me about Episodes I-III was the notion that in an otherwise enlightened society, the Jedi were supposed to live a celibate, monk-like existence. Without wishing to upset anybody, we should all know by now that religious institutions which insist on celibacy tend to become hives of sexual deviancy, and that fact really coloured my thinking about the Jedi. Lucas was dead wrong to do that, and should have come up with a better way of engineering Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. Mind you, the celibacy does explain why there are too few Jedi – the silly buggers refused to breed! When I first saw Episode I, I fully expected Anakin's supposed 'immaculate conception' by the force to cause a furore, but if it did, it was small enough for me not to notice.
I don't really see a problem with this, celibacy is not just confined to the religious institution to which you refer. The closest real world parallel to the Jedi would be far eastern warrior monks, and it is this model on which Lucas based the Jedi and principles of the Force (before all that Midichlorian rubbish ) amongst a mish-mash of other religious ideas and mysticism. Celibacy is seen as a way to focus the mind and body in these instances free from these distractions they can reach enlightenment or become one with the Force or whatever. This totally fits in with old Ben's comments about the Jedi in the OT and only heightens the air of sacrifice and commitment that would be associated with such an enlightened and spiritual organisation such as the Jedi. Sorry for the long post, guess I was bored on my lunch hour. 
- Registered: 2007-10-02
- Posts: 237
Re: Im like a star wars Dictionary. Ask me anything star wars
FSDev| TALON wrote:(from a certain point of view)
Who do you think you are? Obi-Wan Kenobi?  Lovely plausible explanation of Vader's shifting position in the OT from our loremaster there, but the reality is somewhat more mundane. Lucas made a film called 'Star Wars: A New Hope'. It was not actually called 'Episode IV' in the original release. Then, unexpectedly, young George made an absolute bundle on the merchandising (which he accepted in lieu of payment in order the get the film distributed). He had always had in mind an expanded concept of the story, and now he had the funds to so it. Trouble was, Vader would have to be a somewhat different character to that portrayed in the first film... Never mind, shoehorn it in anyway and ardent fans will make up reasons for the contradictions! As far as I'm concerned voluntary celibacy is a sexual perversion in itself; it goes against the natural order of things, which is to pair up and procreate. So in my opinion, Jedi, being utterly attuned to the natural order of things, should never have been portrayed as going down such a route, regardless of who Georgie boy based them on. On the other hand, maybe Master Yoda's 800 years of training Jedi was a bad influence! It's not just the celibacy that sticks in my craw, though; the whole notion of Jedi was different when Lucas came to making Episodes I-III. Give me Kyle Katarn any day, rather than the saints Lucas tried to protray them as. All that "fear leads to the Dark Side" bull after Yoda had quite cheerfully promised Luke he would be afraid during the training on Dagobah – "You will be!" Mine may not be the 'best' inconsistencies present in the Star Wars films, but they're the ones uppermost in my mind. One last thing... Even though Jabba speaks Huttese (tell me I'm wrong, I don't care – it's still gobbledygook!), you can still make out names like 'Han' 'bantha', 'Wookiee' and 'Jedi'. Watch the bit where he orders Chewbacca taken away and listen to Jabba carefully. It sounds to me like he's telling "Lando" to do it... Hey, for all I know Lando could be openly being himself in Jabba's company under cover of having fallen on hard times since he's been on the run from Bespin. Look, even I'm doing it now! 
  Mmm... vanilla!
- From: Manchester
- Registered: 2006-11-03
- Posts: 9,993
Re: Im like a star wars Dictionary. Ask me anything star wars
RabidJohn wrote:shoehorn it in anyway and ardent fans will make up reasons for the contradictions!
Shoehorn nothing. Check out the original movie novelisations, the scripts etc, it is all there in black and white, heck even just watch the movies again. Lucas had the outline for the entire saga before he even made the first one. Sure he would only get to make the rest if the first was successful, but lucky for us it was, and rest as they say is history. Also regarding Jedi, the prequel portrayal of them is completely in line with Ben's tales told in A New Hope, you can not seriously be putting forward Kyle Katarn as a more lore accurate representation of a Jedi than Obi-Wan's own monologue in the first movie that first introduces us to the concept of the Jedi and the Force? Seriously? 
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