Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad

Safe-Keeper wrote:

The PMG is all those things, which is why I have repeatedly called for it to have several nerfing effects applied to it such as damage drop over distance, deviation so that it's not laser-accurate at a range of several hundred meters, a reduced number of clips, and maybe a very slight dazing/suppressing effect like that from a grenade.

Make the edits yourself, they aren't too hard.  However, the PMG is designed to be a long range weapon, and it shoots mortar bolts.  Those are pretty accurate and the way they work, don't do less damage over distance.  We're not touching the weapon any more than we have already, not unless it starts unbalancing the game again - right now it is just bloody annoying and skilless.

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DUKE815: Teamwork's complicated.  I've found that ramming a Lambda with a Y-wing at full boost is most effective.

9 (edited by Safe-Keeper 2009-09-10 19:25:43)

Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad

Well, then what do you propose we/I/you/someone else do with it? We can't have a weapon in the game that's designed to be a long-range weapon, and then have people get yelled at when they use it as such. That's like saying it's OK to have an antitank rocket launcher, just so long as nobody uses it against tanks.

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Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad

It's a "noob" weapon that takes no skill and is, imo, dishonourable to use in most situations.

However, it is not unbalanced.   X-Wings on bandomeer aren't unbalanced, but it doesn't take much skill to own with one either.  However, in both of these cases, it takes equal or less-skill, so long as it is co-ordinated, to take them out.  No Balance issues, no need to fix.

BlackIntel Game Leader
DUKE815: Teamwork's complicated.  I've found that ramming a Lambda with a Y-wing at full boost is most effective.

11 (edited by RSF Angel 2009-09-10 20:22:30)

Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad

Gwynzer wrote:

I'm what I class as an "honourable" FS player.  I go easy for new guys, on small maps I don't capture the CP's which enable ticket bleed.  I avoid back capping unless it is a very hard to take CP or lots of players are online.  I also try to keep the fights fairly close up so the opposition feels like it's a fair fight.

You have your own little definition of ''Honourable'' I'm afraid.
A conquest game with no capturing is a deathmatch- with the arena shrunk to the area between two CP's.
Essentially what you are doing is holding the game at a standstill while both sides rack up kills- for the new guys it feels like they are going nowhere, banging their head against a wall.


Secondly, there's no such thing as 'back capping' on a push map. Back capping is ignoring the closest CP and possibly the next closest and going far away to cap a flag right at the back where the Enemy won't expect you to be- the EU base in 2142 for example.
In push, you either get past their defenses or you don't, but you can't cap flags that aren't on the front line.

Stealth- which you mislabel 'back capping' is not dishonourable. Its a pain in the butt tho. smile

Finally- I agree that new players need to see you killing them with weapons that they too can wield. This is why I like to fire 'warning shots' and so on, so the guy can turn and see me. Then he's had his chance, and if he gets me, no warning shots will follow.

For an interesting treatise on 'engagement' go here:

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2477

Finally- PMG. Yes its an ignominious death, but there would be a large gap in both sides arsenal without it. A game that involves longrange repeating blasters and sniper rifles and TANKS and xwings flying overhead cannot consist purely of short range blasterfights.
Furthermore the arcing shots point a large finger back towards you, alerting every sniper on the other team of your position.
I think that nicely balances it.

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Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad

PMG- Not one shot kill
Sniper rifles- One shot kill on headshots

PMG- Accurate but requires calculated precision over distance
Sniper rifles- Pinpoint accuracy

PMG- Long red streams of rounds arcing high into the air
Sniper rifles- Small single streaks of red or yellow

PMG- 23000 kills
Sniper rifles- 50000 kills


I fail to see how it is really that overpowered in comparison to the sniper rifles? Yet you have only ever wanted to increase the sniper's potential.

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Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad

I think the PMG squad would work, but only for a very short while. You can bombard something for a bit before a couple guys come around and blow the crap out of you. PMGs are useful, but if someone sees you before you see him, you will almost certainly lose the fight (if you have the PMG, with the new patch it makes it even harder). Throw in a medic grenade at the shields then finish them off up close.

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Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad

This is becoming a little bit flame like, what with words such as dishonourable and discussing peoples styles of play.

I must say I do actually agree with Angels point. Back capping is taking a flag away from the front line (Entha..prime example map), whereas covertly sneaking around the sides to get to a cp on a push map is a different thing altogether. Admittedly, it's not as much fun if there are only a few people on, but if the game is at a standstill then sometimes its better to do this to push it on a little. Without it, games become deadlocked in the same area and become a little tiresome IMO.

PMG is not my favourite weapon, and I am the first to criticise its use. That said, I'm also terrible with it. I personally am of the opinion that others that critique its use are also those that do not have particular skill with it. With the timing delay now added it is that little harder for Frist strikes 'noob toob' to be used at close quarters and I have seen complete removal of the "shoot at your feet as the enemy gets close and kill him with splash damage" tactic.

Right now, I think the FS weapons are 'good' but thats not to say they couldn't be improved. I do not like the sighting delay that is evident in weapons when moving from standing to prone. Now I realise that many FPS games suffer from a marked problem whereby many people 'dolphin flip' to the floor before firing, and the sighting deviation is supposed to decrease that. I will counter that though by arguing that it is a well known fact that shooting from the standing position in the aim is markedly less accurate than firing from the kneeling or prone position. Further to that, I have completed many marksmanship qualification shoots which consist of firing snap shots within a time limit, firing one shot while standing then dropping to a different firing position and firing again. There is no such sighting delay and attaining an aiming picture (aka sighting) is much quicker from the kneeling or prone position. This is because in the kneeling poition you are able to use your knee as a support for your left elbow, while keeping the right arm close to the body. This support by the knee effectively helps give a semi tripod support maintaining a steady holding position. Prone position adds to that by allowing both arms to be held stable by the ground, and if the weapon allows the magazine can also rest on the ground, now giving three support points.

BTW, did anyone else see my awesome one hit kill snap shot with the rocket launcher on Null yesterday big_smile

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