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Posts: 22 to 28 of 34

- Twigs
- First Strike's Go To Guy!
- Offline
- Registered: 2007-09-28
- Posts: 4,233
Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad
Gwynzer wrote:Sorry, in this context I meant "Attacking/Capping from the rear". Yes, it's a perfectly valid tactic, I call it flanking in larger games. ..... If the last remaining CP gets "flanked" in a small game, I get really pissed. Again, most the time there are some decent firefights going on, while one team is managing to advance, an ll of a sudden the game ends. Pisses me off, I've shouted at one or two BI people for doing it before.
If you're down to the last CP and one team is managing to advance..isn't that the winning team? And isn't capping the last cp the whole point? Shouldn't the 'losing' team by defending its last cp, since at the end of the day no matter how few people are on, it is their only flag they have to engage at. I fail to see the need to engage in drawn out firefights. Agreeing to meet in the middle of a map with both teams holding the same number of flags in order to prevent any ticket bleed is..pointless. In that case there is no objective to the map and you might as well go play Operation Wolf or something if all you want to do is shoot some stuff. If it's small teams and people don't want to end the round by capping all flags and want to engage in some firefights, then why not encourage some squad play training? Take it in turns to lose a flag, that way each team gets a chance to practice attacking and defending a flag, while trying to achieve some balance in the bleed. Eg, on 16p Espa Imps attack Jabba's. Once/if they cap it, they return back to city ruins and defend that, giving rebels time to recap Jabbas safely then take their turn to try an attack. That keeps everyone happy and for some of the new guys, it will help them learn how the FS team play works while preventing them getting pissed with needless meet in the middle firefights.
Bite my shiny metal Tie Fighter!  
- From: UK
- Registered: 2008-07-31
- Posts: 171
Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad
I go trooper and shoot people and do what Gwynzer tells me to do /fs Also Gwynzer means that in small battles that you shouldn't end the game by capping a CP by sneaking around the side of the map where a small number of people can't all guard.
- From: Dublin, Ireland
- Registered: 2007-10-01
- Posts: 1,308
Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad
Thomas12255 wrote:Also Gwynzer means that in small battles that you shouldn't end the game by capping a CP by sneaking around the side of the map where a small number of people can't all guard.
we know what he means. We just disagree that a small number of people cant guard a CP against a small number of people. Unless all of em are going to leave the CP at once and go sit in firefights, leaving no radar.
''Its over. Angel won.'' RSF Gurd
- From: Grong, Norway
- Registered: 2006-07-25
- Posts: 5,192
Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad
I fail to see how it is really that overpowered in comparison to the sniper rifles? Yet you have only ever wanted to increase the sniper's potential.
Exactly. To bring up an example from a chat I had with Ty on the issue: Not so long ago I was holed up on that Imperial CP hill on Bestine 32. You know, the one the Rebels have to take after securing the little fort in the city itself. I was HWS, and our team was pinned by a single sniper in the city. He was down there somewhere, popping off shots at whoever got out of cover, and our team was pretty much pinned down. The second you got out of cover, you got shot. I set up a shield, but still couldn't tell where the shots were coming from (I know the beam is visible, but you have to be kinda off to the side to see it clearly, and trying to make it out through a shield makes it twice as hard). I think that in the end I and some others actually saw where in the expanse of buildings below us the sniper was, but still failed to take him down. He got on the forums afterwards and bragged - rightfully - about how much disruption he had caused in our team. Let's say it was me in the sniper's situation, onll with a PMG: I take up position somewhere in the city. I see the targets up on the hill, measure the distance with my pistol, and fire off a salvo to get a feel for how I have to aim to hit target. In doing so, I immediately give away my exact map position as the enemy sees the bolts travel from me to them. The bolts also give them a chance to evade and take cover - the PMG doesn't have the "instantly shoot people the second they get out from under the shield" ability of the disruptor. I can adjust my position, but then I have to -once more- find out how high to aim to hit the target I'm shooting at (let me remind you, for comparison, that there is no wind or bullet drop in FS - all a sniper has to do is put his crosshairs on you and fire). Bottom line is, provided I stick with 'sniping' with the PMG (that is, not bombarding but just trying to aim for players I can actually see), I may do some damage while being continuously pelted with fire, though I won't score nearly as many kills as I would with a sniper rifle. Heck, if I just bombard the CP area, I'll score far less kills than I would with a sniper rifle. I return to the forums and receive not honours for single-handedly keeping the enemy team suppressed, but bitching for (quote) sitting back without helping my team, cowardly using a skilless noob weapon (unquote). My point is, the PMG may be a lot of things, but skilless is the last thing it is. Even when you're bombarding a target you can't see, you have to keep checking the minimap for targets and friendlies. Compare the procedure in my scenario above with lying down somewhere comfortably, holding shift, putting the crosshairs on the enemy's head, and hitting fire. EDIT: As a side note, FPS games have a lot of artillery weapons other than mortars - FS itself has the Mortar Freerunner, for one, which has an even longer range, and more blast power, than the PMG, and is easier to use, what with the fact that it keeps track of how long the shots travel for you. Yet I've never been referred to as cowardly when bombarding someone with the Mortar Freerunner, nor, for that matter, with any other artillery piece in any other FPS game. Funny, that. If I was to point to the #1 unfair thing with the PMG, I'd say it's the shield. Mortar infantry can climb up to some elevated position like the tower on Bestine, place a shield, and fire shots in an arc over it without ever having to get out of cover. With this in mind, if I was to design the FS classes from the ground up, I'd probably have had the DEMP and PMG trade classes. This would give mortar infantry nearly infinite ammo from the generator, but make them far more vulnerable. Also, some may argue that sustained bombardment of a cp is akin to spawn rape.
I could get into details here on what I agree and disagree with, but I'm fine with limiting the mortar squad to firing at people away from Control Points (shielded defensive positions, snipers, advancing infantry and so on.
"One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage." --the awesomeness that is Boatmurdered.
- From: Aberdeen, Scotland
- Registered: 2008-06-24
- Posts: 1,926
Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad
Angel, healthy debate is good. It's when it drops into full on-arguing that it gets stupid. Safe-Keeper wrote:the PMG doesn't have the "instantly shoot people the second they get out from under the shield" ability of the disruptor.
Instead, it has the "shoot people while they are behind the sheild, damaging multiple enemies at once" . Those 2 things Balance out. I can adjust my position, but then I have to -once more- find out how high to aim to hit the target I'm shooting at (let me remind you, for comparison, that there is no wind or bullet drop in FS - all a sniper has to do is put his crosshairs on you and fire).
Seriously? This may just be me, but it takes me a maximum of two shots (where the third hits) to catch my target with that thing. There is no wind on the mortar bold either. the projectiles always drop at the same rate, once you have a feeling for the drop value, aiming it is simply a matter of looking at the target, the moving the mouse up a little. Also, you don't have to adjust your position. A Sniper is vulnerable, while he's in scope he is VERY unaware of whats going on around him - only aware of whats in his sights. If he's spotted, he's to find another position a fair distance from where he was before that still allows him a very large firing zone and hope not to be spotted again. With the PMG, you can put down a sheild in the middle of the street, still see your enemy and shoot over the top of it, out of harms way. I return to the forums and receive not honours for single-handedly keeping the enemy team suppressed, but bitching for (quote) sitting back without helping my team, cowardly using a skilless noob weapon (unquote).
Perhaps you weren't keeping the enemy as supressed as you thought? Or maybe you were. Zaphod doesn't get much congrats or thanks for decimating the enemy team with his sniper. He gets recognised as a brilliant sniper because of how often he plays the game coupled with the fact he is bloody good. Same for me, I don't usually get any thanks or post-game congratulations for a brilliant beacon/mounted gun emplacement. I just get recognised for the amount I play and the fact I am good at it. I've yet to see anyone who has been recognised as a "Good" mortar user. Infact, I can think of only a couple of really good HWS users. My point is, the PMG may be a lot of things, but skilless is the last thing it is. Even when you're bombarding a target you can't see, you have to keep checking the minimap for targets and friendlies. Compare the procedure in my scenario above with lying down somewhere comfortably, holding shift, putting the crosshairs on the enemy's head, and hitting fire.
If it wasn't skilless, we wouldn't see total FS newbies joining, picking up that weapon and doing really good with it. Yes, it takes skill to use the mortar very effectively. However, in my time in FS, I can count on 1 hand the amount of people I've seen who are "good" with the mortar - People who really help the team and know EXACTLY when to use it (and other kit assets) to help the team. Thats a maximum of 5 people out of everyone. Not much considering the amount of people who use it.
BlackIntel Game Leader DUKE815: Teamwork's complicated. I've found that ramming a Lambda with a Y-wing at full boost is most effective.

- Twigs
- First Strike's Go To Guy!
- Offline
- Registered: 2007-09-28
- Posts: 4,233
Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad
Noob weapons tend to be anything that makes a pretty bang. Thats why FS prevents nade spamming, far too many are happy to sit near ammo and continually throw out nades cause its more powerful and requires less skill than actually aiming at someone with a weapon. That is perhaps HWS biggest let down, both the rocket launcher and the mortar are the weapons with the most available bang. So people choose those in order to create lots of bangs and damage without having to really gain any skill with the weapon. I get recognised for being a git. Does that count?
Bite my shiny metal Tie Fighter!  
- From: Grong, Norway
- Registered: 2006-07-25
- Posts: 5,192
Re: Return of the Preplanned infantry squad
There is no wind on the mortar bold either. the projectiles always drop at the same rate, once you have a feeling for the drop value, aiming it is simply a matter of looking at the target, the moving the mouse up a little.
Which is still harder than just holding shift, pointing your crosshairs at the target, and pressing fire for an instant one-hit-one-kill. Also, you don't have to adjust your position. A Sniper is vulnerable, while he's in scope he is VERY unaware of whats going on around him - only aware of whats in his sights. If he's spotted, he's to find another position a fair distance from where he was before that still allows him a very large firing zone and hope not to be spotted again. With the PMG, you can put down a sheild in the middle of the street, still see your enemy and shoot over the top of it, out of harms way.
Point taken, but you're still vulnerable to gas grenades and pretty much anything with a blast radius - most of all other PMG's. If you see a guy sitting behind a shield pumping PMG bolts over it, can't you just have someone go PMG and counter his fire by placing some well-aimed bolts behind his shield ? Perhaps you weren't keeping the enemy as supressed as you thought? Or maybe you were. Zaphod doesn't get much congrats or thanks for decimating the enemy team with his sniper. He gets recognised as a brilliant sniper because of how often he plays the game coupled with the fact he is bloody good. Same for me, I don't usually get any thanks or post-game congratulations for a brilliant beacon/mounted gun emplacement. I just get recognised for the amount I play and the fact I am good at it. I've yet to see anyone who has been recognised as a "Good" mortar user. Infact, I can think of only a couple of really good HWS users.
I'm not looking for congrats, I used that last line as a bit just to underline my point - that even though sniper rifles do a better job at killing enemies and are easier to use, they don't get nearly the amount of flak PMG's do.
"One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage." --the awesomeness that is Boatmurdered.
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