Topic: Implementing basic fighter tactics in the game: Y-wings

Hi everyone!
Here are few things that’s been running around in my head the last weeks. Basically i think that a few simple features would promote team play and a more realistic way executing space combat in the game. This post will deal with the y-wing, but keep your eyes open for the x-wing post too.
First off, in a star wars game, any fighter should be handled as a WWII fighter, say a Spitfire or Messerschmitt. Not a modern fighter like an F-15 or JAS-39 (me, Swedish? Why?)
In the movies you see TIEs and x-wing hunt each other down and blast one another with cannons in much the same way as WWII fighters would. Only they would probably be using machineguns, not laser cannons. Some Star Wars fighters will carry missiles, proton torpedoes and concussion missiles, but in my mind, they are NOT the primary weapons.

Some basic lore on the Y-wing

In the early star wars movies (IV, V and VI) y-wings provide mainstay of the rebel star fighter force. It’s not the most modern fighter around, but readily available and familiar to most of the pilots of the alliance. The Y-wing was designed as a space-superiority fighter and has found use in many different fleets, including even pirates and smugglers. The beauty of it is that it can be fitted with almost any type of equipment, and loads of it too! So let’s start of by saying: the y-wing is NOT armed with one set of forward firing lasers, a roof mounted ion-cannon and proton torpedoes. This is just one of the never ending outfitting you’ll find. However, a few things can almost be seen as standard on this multi-role craft. It’s manned by a pilot and a weapons operator. The pilot off ours flying the craft, and using the fixed nose mounted weapons probably fitted. The weapons operator might have different missiles, a gun turret or both. They are both aided by an onboard Astromech able to do a bit of everything.
This leaves us with a highly versatile fighter craft that can do almost any job. However the y-wing has a slight drawback in its speed and maneuverability. It can simply not match TIE fighters or interceptors in performance. But with heavy shields, armor and a defensive gun-turret in the hands of a skilled crew, its can hold its own. In the role as bomber/strike-craft the y-wing is deadly. With an escort of x-wings or a-wings, a force of y-wings can really dish out some damage to smaller capital ships. At the time of the battle of Endor, the Y-wings role as a bomber is being filled by the much more modern B-wing. But still it remains an important part of the Alliance fleet!

The Y-wing in-game as I see it:

Lets start by saying that I have never played BF 2142 and that I’m basing my ideas on what I have seen I BF2.
On weapons: As I wrote in the lore, the Y-wing does not have a set of standard weapons. It can pretty much bring anything into the battle. Naturally the pilot in the game will want forward firing cannon of some sort, blaster, laser or ion. This gives the craft its main dog fighting weapon. As for the gunner’s arsenal, the DEVs should really take in consideration in which scenario the fight is taking place. First, the gun turret. For game play sake, I think one should be fitted to all the Y-wings in the game. So, Ion or laser cannon? If the y-wings are targeting larger targets, like cap ships, I think the gunner should have an Ion cannon. It just makes sense to give it that extra punch against those big ships. If a large imperial fighter force is to be expected a faster firing laser or blaster cannon might be in order.
I also think that the gunner ought to have some sort of missile in his/her/its control. Here we have a few options to consider. If we look at what’s available in BF2, we have the helis TV-missile, the F-15 missile, plain bombs, and the stingers or sidewinder style missiles. I would argue that any of these styles of firing missiles could be implemented for the y-wing. All would depend on the scenario. If the y-wing is acting as fighter, give it an air-to-air (or space-to-space) missile system. If it’s hitting big capital ships in space, give it the TV-missile. And if it's a ground support craft, smack some bombs or F-15 style missile on it. For the sake of team play, it would probably be best if all these weapon systems where controlled by the gunner, even the air-to-air missiles.

On flight groups: Just as the x-wings, Y-wings don’t fight alone. The fly in groups. I don’t know how many players can be in one group in this mod, but I’m going to guess it’s six, so my ideas will be based on that.
A flight of Y-wings should consist of three crafts. Each with a gunner and a pilot. This will make six people and fill one group. If more that six people can be in one group, say eight, maybe four craft could form one group.
Depending on what mission given to the flight group, tactics will vary but here is what would be the base for any type of operation. The group will de designated something like ”rough”, ”gold” or ”green”. In this example I will be calling my group GREEN-group.
The flight leader, who is the pilot of one craft, should have the call sign ”GREEN ONE”, the rest of the pilots would follow as ”GREEN TWO” and ”GREEN THREE”. The gunner would the have the call sign ”GREEN FOUR”, riding with ”GREEN ONE” and so on.
GREEN ONE (the flight leader) is responsible for keeping track of the battle. He/She/It is to give orders to the rest of the group, and focus on the mission. The Two other craft would simply stay close to ”GREEN LEADER” (or GREEN ONE) and provide him/her/it with cover. When it comes to unloading a bunch of torpedoes into a cruiser, pilots just loosen up the formation and the gunners deploy their weapons. The gunners also will be responsible for keeping any little TIEs off. The problem is that the turrets of the y-wing usually don’t fire down. This can rather easily be overcome by having one craft flying inverted in relation to the rest on the group.

Being in high threat from fighter attack, a Y-wing group engaged in a large scale battle would benefit greatly from an escort. This could be made out of anything from a full group of six x-wing to a pair of a-wings. This however may cause some problems in communications between the y-wings and their escorts. Three fully manned y-wings can not (if six is the maximum number of people in a group) have the x-wing pilots in the group. A solution to this may be a small compact group, made out of two Y-wings and two X-wing escorts. The two y-wings would be designated “GREEN ONE” and “GREEN TWO” and the x-wings “GOLD ONE” and “GOLD TWO”. This leaves “GOLD ONE” flying cover for “GREEN ONE” and “GOLD TWO” for “GREEN TWO”.  These escort should also be kept in mind when creating spawn points, so that a group can launch with their escorts.

So if this sort of game play is to be available, what do we need from the devs? Well not all that much. Keeping the group tight and executing the tactics, is totally up to the players. However there are a few things that would open up for this sort of play.
First, Y-wings need to spawn in groups of three. If not, we are going to find people having to wait around for too long, becoming impatient and just heading out on their own. Also there needs to be lots of y-wings, not just six. Preferably in different hangars or such. This way your group could easily find three Y-wings waiting for them, allowing them to start as a team, even at launch.

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Re: Implementing basic fighter tactics in the game: Y-wings

Wooo, long poster mate. But some good information and thoughts on all the matters you addressed. Also you sigs fancy. I'd love to see fighters and strike craft work more effectively as a team. Bf2 had so few fighters, it was kinda not an issue. But it probally will be in space maps. But it might be hard to get people to work together (especially wait to launch together) without impeeding on bf's open nature. 

But there is one thing the devs can use to their advantadge here, and thats bf2's/2142's squads. Bf fighter jockeys will always avoid formation flying, seeing as there kinda almost competing with each other for kills. There not gunna wait while the guy in front of him gets an open shot at some ties, hes gunna try to get in front himself. But thats okay, its just bf's style. And it dosn't mean a death to all squadron tactics.
Bf2's/2142's command/chat rose is customizable based on what or where you are. When your in a fighter, you'll notice that your 'follow me' chat button, is replaced by a 'bail out' button. And in 2142 squad commands are reinforced by bonus points.
I think that the fighter command roses should be messed with so that the common stuff, like I need repairs and I need ammo (two things unlikely to be had while flying), are replaced with more relevant tactical commands. For instance, 'Theres one on my tail!', or 'keep me covered'.
And actual squad leaders could have more important commands, like 'focus fire on the capital ship!', 'form up on me', or 'break and engage!'. These commands with some clever coding might be backed up by bonus points like 2142's more generic commands are.
Now I'm not totally sure how teh comman rose vehicle differations work. It might be that all vehicles have the same rose, thats different than infantry's. But if the devs could figure out how to edit the rose for each vehicle, or even better, position in the vehicle, we might get some intresting team play going on.
People in the captain's position on capital ships could order what kind of targets he wants his gunners to focus on, for one. That would be cool. Well I'm done ramebling now.

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Re: Implementing basic fighter tactics in the game: Y-wings

Signatures very nice indeed, a quality post there Quificman highlighting some very good issues and question marks about the deployment of armaments. We have gone to some length to look at the issues of both deployment and damage effects, but by no means are we finished on it.
We would like to see of course balance brought into the destructive capabilities of projectiles for both sides and this is an ongoing "tweaking" even as we speak.

More posts like these please!

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Re: Implementing basic fighter tactics in the game: Y-wings

Im certainly all for "loose" formation flying , basically a squad recieving an order from the squad leader and heading towards the target. But waiting for everyone to form up ect isnt really practical. Also i think you'd find much like on that coral sea map for bf1942 that bombers recieving fighter escorts would basically happen by itself just with the sheer amount of "friendlys" in the air.

Nice sig btw .

Re: Implementing basic fighter tactics in the game: Y-wings

Nice post QuficMan. It was very well written, but a lot of your info on the Y-wing is inaccurate. Here's some detailed default technical specifications:

Name/Model: BTL-A4 Y-wing Starfighter
Designer/Manufacturer: Koensayr
Combat Designation: Long Range Fighter-Bomber/Attacker
Length: 16 Meters
Capacity: 1 Pilot, 1 Astromech Droid, 110 Kilograms Cargo (BTL-S3 Model has an Added Gunner)
Power Systems: Thiodyne 03-R Cryogenic Power Cells and Ionization Reactor
Propulsion Systems: Two Koensayr R200 Ion Fission Engines
Thrust Rating: 250 KTU
Maximum Speed: 70 MGLT In Space, 1,000 KPH/621 MPH In Atmosphere
Maximum Acceleration: 2,700 Gs
Flight Control System: Subpro NH-7 Flight Control Avionics Package
Maneuverability Rating: 50 DPF
Navigation: Astromech Droid
Hyperdrive: Koensayr R300-H Motivator Drive Unit
Hyperspace Classification: Class 1
Sensor Systems: Fabritech ANs-5d Unit With
                              Long Range Phased Tachyon Detection Array PA9-r
                              Short Range Primary Threat Analysis Grid PG-7u
Targeting Computer: Fabritech ANc-2.7 Tracking Computer With
                                   SI 5g7 "Quickscan" Vector Imaging System
Default Weapon Configuration: Two Taim & Bak KX5 Laser Cannons
                                                  (Single Fire Or Fire-Linked)
                                                   One ArMek SW-4 Twin Ion Cannon On Rotating Turret
                                                  (Single Fire Or Fire-Linked)
                                                   Two Arakyd Flex Tube Proton Torpedoe Launchers
                                                   (Four Torpedoes Each)
Weapons Note: Can be equipped with two Taim & Bak IX4 laser cannons and an assortment of
                          warheads including proton bombs and concussion missiles.
Deflector Shields: Forward/Rear Projecting Chempat Deflector Shield System
Deflector Shield Integrity Rating: 75 SBD
Armor: Titanium-Reinforced Alusteel Alloy Hull
Armor Integrity Rating: 40 RU

The Alliance has three standard versions of the Y-wing in use based on two basic models. The BTL-A4 is the single seater version and sees the most use in Alliance fleets. The A4 model is the most well rounded and versatile. The BTL-S3 model has an extended forward cockpit module to accomodate the addition of a co-pilot who generally functions as a gunner/weapons officer for the SW-4 ion cannon assembly. The S3 model is used primarily when pinpoint targeting is crucial for a mission's perameters. The pilot and gunner sit back to back a la the T-47 Snowspeeder. In fact the Alliance's modified T-47 Snowspeeder cockpit assembly featured components taken from the BTL-S3 Y-wing. The third model, the BTL-A4 LP or "Longprobe", is actually a variant of the two seater S3 model. The gunner station has been removed to accomodate extra provisions, more powerful sensors and a sophisticated navigational computer specifically for patrol and reconaissance.

I'll be back to give a much more detailed description of the Y-wing as soon as I can. big_smile

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Re: Implementing basic fighter tactics in the game: Y-wings

I think it's kinda funny that lucas is probably the last person to ask about any of the specs on any of his anythings in the star wars universe. He made an awesome script and a great story that was more like a fairy tale (his own words) than an actual hardcore sci-fi movie. Dont get me wrong im not knocking those who are fans of the Extended Universe stuff, i think its awesome someone went through all the trouble trying to figure out exactly what everything is and how it works, i'm just continually surprised at the length at which people can discuss things that lucas himself probably hasnt even thought about since making the movies:)

Very interesting read, too.. what are the specs on the x wing vs a normal tie fighter? That I would be interested to know.

Re: Implementing basic fighter tactics in the game: Y-wings

WHere have all these long posting lore experts come from tongue   Good stuff

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