Re: Missile kills or "gun kills"

As far as hitting that stationary 5 meter target in ANH goes, think of it this way...even today our guided bombs have a great deal of trouble hitting within 5 meters of their intended target, while our air-to-air missiles have incredible homing capabilities.  Using current tech as a ref to compare Star Wars with, the same was true, if not more true, in the 70s when GL was making the movies, so it's possible he modelled them using then-current tech as a base.  All of that speculation is irrelevant though as our aim is to make an enjoyable game, while staying true to Star Wars lore that we know to be accurate.  While the X-Wing games aren't grade A canon, they still provide us with a certain amount of useable lore (albiet EU lore), with which I think we should be able to base our features off if we so choose.  Now...the issue becomes whether the game is playable and FUN...that will only be determined by testing, so we'll see how that goes.

I realized that you have a limited amount of missiles for long missions in the X-Wing series (although on some missions in TIE Fighter you were provided with a transport that would reload you), but ways we could counter that would be by lowering the amount of missiles each fighter spawns with, make reloading without landing nigh impossible (I always thought that was wierd about the BF series), leaving the lasers as infinite (albiet with a self-rechargeing function so you can "run out" for a short period of time), and making the lock-on time sufficiently long such that you won't be able to just toss missiles out, 2 seconds after spotting your enemy.

Also, the only craft likely to get the anti-fighter concussion missiles would be the A-Wing, the TIE Advanced (maybe), the Falcon, and perhaps some versions of the TIE Bomber.  Lore dictates that the X-Wing, Y-Wing, and B-Wing would most likely be armed with torpedoes, if at all, and the other TIE variants didn't carry any warheads without special modification (EU sh*t).

I'm gonna go replay some of the TIE Fighter missions so I can calculate the lock-on time for concussion missiles and proton torpedoes.

@Canadiens:  My thoughts exactly.

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Re: Missile kills or "gun kills"

I just want to say I have a long background in designing SW games in a text-based environment (MUDs) And a vast amount of my specialty lies in the design and implementation of Star Wars starships, including balancing and whatnot. Staying as close to canon as possible is important in not to ruin feel, but the movies are EXTREMELY lacking for useful information (Aside from aesethetics) when designing a game. A lot of things are shown in the movies for cinematic purposes.

The "EU sh*t* as you put it is incredibly important.  Without rattling on too much I'd say a good source of info going forward on the design of your ships would be Wookieepedia. I didn't have this site when designing my games, but I did scour the net, and own many rpg sourcebooks, and of course played the X-Wing games.  Wookieepedia has appropriate armaments listed for every ship. This is not to say a ship cannot be loaded to a specialty purpose. Typically the B-Wing and Y-Wing were bombers. Both were very capable at anti-fighter duties though. Especially the B-Wing.  In fact ships such as the B-Wing and TIE Defender for example are not wise choices to implement in competitive games because to get them right leaves them wildly unbalanced. They are all capable of loading a various armament of lock-on missiles (on the Rebel side of things)

I'd also go so far to say as not to even bother implementing the TIE Fighter, yes its an iconic ship but it was not meant for singular ship to ship combat. I'd go with the TIE Interceptor for that, the Interceptor would also be without missiles (and without shields!), but I'd design it similarly to the A-Wing (and the A-Wing would have minimal shielding too), speed and agility would be paramount. Of course for the most 'fun' solution I'd just go with TIE Advanceds for air-to-air and TIE Bombers for ground pounding. While both the Interceptor and Fighter are iconic and highly desirable, they certainly will not be fun unless they spawn in larger amounts than the available rebel ships on maps or are obnoxiously more agile.

It's certainly a delicate balance, but missiles are important, and I am curious as to why the 'lock on' is troublesome. 2142 has this natively, couldnt you simply work off the existing missile lock ons from the gunships?

Anyways, yeah I digressed a bit and touched on some other issues there.

Anyways heres the link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Re: Missile kills or "gun kills"

I think it would be a HUGE mistake to let "LORE" get in the way of making a good game/mod

From my understanding the FS Team are fully aware of this and will use "LORE" first and foremost - but if this gets in the way of making the game playable, balanced, and FUN then I believe exceptions will be made

As a massively sweeping statement and generalisation **puts on flame retardent suit**

LORE would lean towards having the EMPIRE with larger numbers, "better" vehicles and technology, and some highly skilled and trained parts of the army

The REBELS would be far fewer in number, have inferior weapons, vehicles - however they would have a small group of 6 "heroes" and "the FORCE" on their side

This is very difficult to effectively program into the game as you could not unbalance the numbers in the game, give the team with better numbers all of the best ships - I think I would be able to predict which side would keep winning in the games!

It would be difficult to ensure that the best players get on the smaller team to counter-act all of this - e.g. do you program "the FORCE" to allow REBELS to get lots of "lucky shots" wink

I know that the 6 heroes play no part in FS but I think that the wider audience needs to be considered to ensure that FS is successful on as big a scale as possible

I would say the vast majority of this "wider audience" have just seen the films and are not "lore" experts

Therefore I think that "LORE" should definitely be used as the guiding principles BUT not to the exclusion of good gameplay IMHO

Re: Missile kills or "gun kills"

by no means does lore go over gameplay. we pride ourselves on having built a fun and really well balanced game. while still staying as true to lore as possible. something that lucasarts has yet to achieve. gameplay is our first and foremost priority. but i do admit there have been some cases where lore triumphed over gameplay but these are minor things. in gameplay that would have made a big difference in the overall star wars feel. for example we will not make a star destroyer square just because it would be better gameplay wise.

Compulsive doodler

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Re: Missile kills or "gun kills"

To put it short: What Canadiens said in his 'why's there so much discussion on this?' post.

I know that the 6 heroes play no part in FS but I think that the wider audience needs to be considered to ensure that FS is successful on as big a scale as possible

I would say the vast majority of this "wider audience" have just seen the films and are not "lore" experts

Therefore I think that "LORE" should definitely be used as the guiding principles BUT not to the exclusion of good gameplay IMHO

If you're suggesting Jedi and the Force - I suggest you run before [hears roaring mob] ...too late. Welcome to the forums. Nice knowing you tongue .

"One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage."
--the awesomeness that is Boatmurdered.

Re: Missile kills or "gun kills"

If you're suggesting Jedi and the Force - I suggest you run before [hears roaring mob] ...too late. Welcome to the forums. Nice knowing you tongue .

lol - no no, not at all

I think the devs are spot on by not including JEDI and "The FORCE"

All I was saying is that to get good gameplay the 2 sides need to be "balanced" and sticking strictly to "LORE" may not make this possible due to the inherrent un-balanced nature of the EMPIRE and REBELS (which in the films was balanced by the 6 heroes and the force)

So my point was that if the 6 heroes, the force (and jedi) are excluded (which I think they should be be) then the "lore" may have to be "bent" to ensure balanced gameplay - especially in relation to ships, gun kills and missiles!

What HaVoC373 has posted is absolutely music to my ears and is exactly the approach I thought (and hoped!) was being taken

Good job!

56 (edited by Peter12378 2007-06-24 09:07:43)

Re: Missile kills or "gun kills"

I think that missiles and torpedoes should be in it, but have a fairly long reload time and lock-on. The beeping noise should be implemented when the torpedo/missle has left the ship. Torpedoes should carry a heavier damage tag, but missles can turn faster.

Besides, using lasers has more skill to it. In a game, I look at skill rather than kills

And BTW, when we were doing exams in school, we used KIS. Keep It Simple. Don't start going off on decade-long exploit to find what does what. Just keep it as close as you can to reality without delaying anything

The one Voss to rule them all. The one Voss to find them. One Voss to bring them all and FRAG THEM!