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Posts: 85 to 91 of 107
 - TY2D2
- First Strike Team Member
- Offline
- From: California
- Registered: 2006-07-24
- Posts: 4,574
Re: Exiting Capital Ships
RagNoRock wrote:Really? Ya have never used a gun ship to clear an area then hover above a point to cap it (or set it down so the gunner can get out to cap it faster), used a tank to clear the area then come in and cap it and get out to do repairs, land your gunship somewhere to repair it, landed your gunship on a titan or gotten out of your tank/walker to repair it?
That's arcade gameplay, 2142 gameplay, its overdone, and it kills the immersion of the Star Wars universe. When I played 2142, the one thing that kills the immersion and realistic factor of the visuals for me the most is the stupid actions you can perform during a battle. Such as bailing from a gunship, opening your parachute 10 feet from the ground and then proceeding to gun down infantry. That's ridiculous. I don't want to see that sh!t in FS. People skidding xwings into CPs hopping out and getting into a tank? That's just retarded tbh. As of now, FS isn't even incorporating pilot classes or crewman classes like PR so, if people can bail from their ships you are going to get the 2142 scenario I explained above. RagNoRock wrote:Are yall also going to prevent people from getting out of the tanks/artilery your putting in? The pilots of those would also not carry more then a pistol and from a realism perspective never get out of the tank. They were specialised just like fighters were. For reference see the movies with the AT-AT and AT-ST, they were only in cloth imperial uniforms.
No. But doesn't it make a lot more sense that a soldier that is at least on the ground has a weapon than one that was expected to be in space or in the sky the entire time? I am not trying to relate this to real life that much, but IRL crews carry rifles and other small arms for self defense or if their assets are disabled. I didn't notice anywhere in any film they showed that armor crews didn't carry some sort of rifle or carbines with them. The only time we see a crewman of a ATST is when he open the hatch to remove an Ewok from the roof. That is not sufficient evidence to generalize that ALL ATSTs carry no rifles or carbines in them, and it surely cannot speak for every other vehicle in Star Wars. That said, I would actually prefer a crewman and pilot kit be properly coded into FS, but we won't see that for awhile, if ever. RagNoRock wrote:I thought yall were saying that FH1/2 didn't have parasuits, using it as a refereance to show people jump out w/ no chance of survival. So thusly my point stands, people would not jump out of their fighter mid dog-fight or when they are being hit, for no reason. The only way you would be able to get out and live would be when you land in the landing platform of what ever the objective is.
Ok? So what's the problem with not being able to get out of the craft if you say yourself the only way of surviving would be inside your own ship, and certainly a fellow pilot could repair your ship for you. ...or objective? The only objective for a pilot is to fly his ship, there is no other objective. RagNoRock wrote:IF the devs have some super big omega secret that they are bringing out in 1.2 other then just the combined arms map (oohhhh a regular BF map....) then do please tell. What possible gain is there in keeping it hidden. Telling people what it is can only cause hype and get people interested in the mod again.
As was said earlier, the devs cannot release any info until they themselves know all of what will or will not be included. So wait for a news release and be patient, the devs to not cater to you and your thirst for information.
 "Munchkin: One who, on being told that this is a game about politics and intrigue in 17th century Italy, asks to play a ninja."— Andrew Rilstone
 - Omen
- Banned Forever
- Offline
- Registered: 2007-09-06
- Posts: 692
Re: Exiting Capital Ships
This will not happen so there is no point for this topic to continue.
- Registered: 2007-04-10
- Posts: 101
Re: Exiting Capital Ships
Im proposing this for FUTURE maps where there is a central objective, not really for getting out in your own hanger. Its next to impossible to land in there anyway, fastest way to reload is to smash your ship into the enemy. I have been talking all along about central objectives like a space station that needs its innards blown up or something, requiring a titanesc assault onto the station from nearby ships.
- From: Grong, Norway
- Registered: 2006-07-25
- Posts: 5,192
Re: Exiting Capital Ships
Ya have never used a gun ship to clear an area then hover above a point to cap it (or set it down so the gunner can get out to cap it faster), used a tank to clear the area then come in and cap it and get out to do repairs, land your gunship somewhere to repair it, landed your gunship on a titan or gotten out of your tank/walker to repair it?
There are situations in which you find yourself regretting getting into your vehicle. For example, you could spawn in on Escape From Hoth, get in a TIE Bomber, and find that there are no freighters inbound, only Rebel fighters. You could get in a B-Wing on Taloraan only to find yourself blasted by a TIE Interceptor because no one else on your team went A-Wing or X-Wing. However, as Ty said, it doesn't really take that much to analyze the map and tactical situation and figure out what ship to pick. Are yall also going to prevent people from getting out of the tanks/artilery your putting in?
Why on Earth should they? The reasons for not letting pilots eject from fighters in space are:
- You'd have pilots bail to their death deliberately to deny their enemies kills, or to avoid having to suicide.
- You'd have those people fall through space for five minutes before they hit the invisible floor at the bottom of the map and died.
- You'd have pilots land their fighters in enemy hangars, for then to get blasted by the ship's defenders.
- You'd have pilots get out of their fighters and faff about on whatever surface that happened to have infantry collision meshes. None of these apply to ground vehicles on ground maps. The pilots of those would also not carry more then a pistol and from a realism perspective never get out of the tank. They were specialised just like fighters were. For reference see the movies with the AT-AT and AT-ST, they were only in cloth imperial uniforms.
They were still able to bail from their vehicles. If I find myself in a damage AT-ST, knowing it's about to be destroyed, I can bail and then scuttle the thing with detpacks or whatever to prevent its capture, rather than die inside it. Fighter pilots, on the other hand, die when they bail. Not to mention that in FS, tank crews, unlike pilots, do carry more than just pistols, and are as such able to actually get something done outside of their vehicles. Of course the devs could give pilots better weapons and some equipment, but I personally don't want to see this as I learned from Battlefront how ridiculously silly it felt in-game. I thought yall were saying that FH1/2 didn't have parasuits, using it as a refereance to show people jump out w/ no chance of survival. So thusly my point stands, people would not jump out of their fighter mid dog-fight or when they are being hit, for no reason.
I'm trying to stop bringing in experiences from GC, because I know the devs don't approve of it, but you force my hand. People often bailed from their fighters in GC, which, just like FS, didn't have parachutes or any kind of escape/survival thingies for ejected pilots. You'd see people run around on little asteroids, on the top of capital ships, and in the Death Star trench. You'd even, very often, in fact, have people swim around until they drowned in the invisible water at the bottom of the map. A very common complaint on the GC forums was that people bailed from their fighters to deny their attackers points for killing them. IF the devs have some super big omega secret that they are bringing out in 1.2 other then just the combined arms map (oohhhh a regular BF map....) then do please tell.
If you haven't noticed, there is no combined arms map in FS as of 1.11, so Ryloth will actually add a new element to the mod and is thus a big feature in my eyes as a space map would be to BF2142. Im proposing this for FUTURE maps where there is a central objective, not really for getting out in your own hanger.
As was said when S-Guy brought this up, there will be troop transports in FS, so there's no need to let fighters work as troop transports. I actually agree about the ISD Hangar, though, there should be an easier way to repair your TIE than to hover next to the walkway and wait for someone to patch you up. I'm thinking... maybe if the devs made it so that you could hover over the floor of the ISD's hangar and automatically be repaired?
"One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage."
--the awesomeness that is Boatmurdered.
- Registered: 2007-04-10
- Posts: 101
Re: Exiting Capital Ships
Well, the people who complained about not getting the "Kill Count" should grow up  They did something much more valuable for the team, they kept an enemy combatant out of the battle for much longer then the respawn time. The little number next to your name does and means absolutly jack squeezey pooh. It matters if ya win the round or not, and if the enemy is stupid enough to try and bail, knowing they will die or do nothing of any use, then be glad they are such idiots :-P Exiting your fighter would only benifit your team/you when you can live and do something usefull afterwords, such as assisting with the objective or repairing your ship so you can kill more. Pistols are not something to laugh at, many a times when I was playing I could pistol it up and still get 2-3 kills. Pistols hurt  But aside from that its another person Caping a point or blowing up an objective and the faster those get done the better your team is off People got out and ran around on cap ships because that was how you got into them to take out the crew. Since this mod cant/wont put in interiors to the cap ships that point is mute. I used the ships to let me take the roll of a Space Trooper. Since they didn't actualy put the Space Trooper suits/vehicles in the game I had to jerryrig one. Give us Space Troopers and I for one wouldn't complain any more, would have a nice middle man roll to play http://www.starwars.com/databank/organi … index.html Now, on your reasons for Pilots being unable to get out...
1) As I said earlyer, the bailee is stupid and hurting their team more by doing that. The person who was denied a kill should be glad and move on. Also suiciding by doing what people do now (run into something) would be a much faster way to respawn then floating for a few minutes :-P
2) Anyone stupid enough to get out mid flight would have the suicde option for them when they are done hurting their team from their stupid actions.
3) As I said earlyer, put auto turrets in the hanger to prevent that. However with fighters as hard to precision control and since their are no escape pods w/ infinity health I don't see this effectivly happening very much.
4) And? Their team looses a member of their team while they are exploring and can't get a replacement one. Its like killing someone and keeping them out for 1-4 minutes due to their own stupidity In space, if your ship is badly damaged, wouldn't you want to land on the nearest station you could to get out and repair the ship or give up on it? Im sure as hell I would! Not going to just contend my self to fly around the battlefield in a smoking ship. And flying all the way back to my hanger would be to dangerous as the enemy could easly pick me off. Would make much more since to land on the simi-nutral SPACESTATION right next to me.
90 Reply by S-Guy 2008-02-14 12:24:12 (edited by S-Guy 2008-02-14 12:26:00)
 - S-Guy
- Sith Apprentice
- Offline
- From: The Attic
- Registered: 2007-11-12
- Posts: 745
Re: Exiting Capital Ships
Too many smilies...*shudder*
Ok TY...here's my opinion on all your cons: Landing on space junk: ...yeah...they would get run over by a fighter/shot/nuked/destroyed/slaughtered. Trying to kill capitals w/ pistol: ...easy kill. Someone walks up, "WHAP". Dead. Bailing out in space: Their loss. -1 point for them. +1 stupidity. Camping capital ship: What ragnorock said. Automated turrets. Remember episode 1? Immersion factor: *Destroys Death Star* *Lands back in hangar* *tries to get out of fighter* AAAAAH!! Real Life: OMG!! He's gonna shoot down my A-10! *Uses specially designed ejection seat to save his life* Repairing Self: Yeah...about that. What if you're on a low pop server, or everyone took off? Nobody else will repair you now... Also...couldn't you make it so when you got out in space, you would float around and lose health from no air? Would be more realistic...and up the immersion factor you care so much about.
Curses, foiled again! 
- From: Grong, Norway
- Registered: 2006-07-25
- Posts: 5,192
Re: Exiting Capital Ships
Again, this doesn't really mean much as the devs are the ones pulling the shots, but anyways... Exiting your fighter would only benifit your team/you when you can live and do something usefull afterwords, such as assisting with the objective or repairing your ship so you can kill more.
And again, as a fighter pilot you assist your team in accomplishing its objective by staying in your fighter. And you get your ship repaired by meeting up with repair ships or landing in your hangar bay. There are rare moments where you actually have to change ships, but they're few and far between, and in those few cases, suicide cuts it. No need to let pilots leave their ships when all you have to do is hit Enter and click the 'Suicide' button. Pistols are not something to laugh at, many a times when I was playing I could pistol it up and still get 2-3 kills. Pistols hurt
That's because pistols are ridiculously overpowered at the moment, and will hopefully be nerfed for 1.2. Once they actually act like pistols ingame, the pilot will be useless in infantry combat. As he should be. But aside from that its another person Caping a point or blowing up an objective and the faster those get done the better your team is off
If that's your philosophy, then why the Heck spawn as a fighter pilot and grab a starfighter in the first place? Pick an infantry class and get in that troop transport! People got out and ran around on cap ships because that was how you got into them to take out the crew. Since this mod cant/wont put in interiors to the cap ships that point is mute.
So you're just going to ignore my other examples of people getting out of their fighters in stupid places? You said that if people could exit their fighters whenever they wanted to, that wouldn't mean they'd use that ability to faff about. I proved otherwise. 3) As I said earlyer, put auto turrets in the hanger to prevent that.
Auto-turret + fighter = no auto-turret. Even if it's behind a shield or whatever. It'd do some limited good, but eventually the lone wolves or troop transport would take it out. 1) As I said earlyer, the bailee is stupid and hurting their team more by doing that.
4) And? Their team looses a member of their team while they are exploring and can't get a replacement one. Its like killing someone and keeping them out for 1-4 minutes due to their own stupidity
Well, here's the problem: some people, like myself, want to play this team game as (drumroll) a team game, and we don't like it when people do stupid things when they should be helping their team. If I'm playing the Battle of Yavin, the last thing I want to hear when I desperately try to nail that exhaust port with Vader on my tail is for Han Solo to go 'OMG I landed the falcon and now im standing on this tower with chewie! were having nife fights and shooting @ties with our pistols&theycan't c us lol!'. And like it or not, a lot of people do care about their scores, and bailing to death effectively reduces their enjoyment of the mod. In space, if your ship is badly damaged, wouldn't you want to land on the nearest station you could to get out and repair the ship or give up on it? Im sure as hell I would!
Possibly, but me and Ty want there to be at least a semblance of realism in this mod. If an F-16 fighter pilot in reality got hit, would he land on a deserted strip of highway, jump out of his fighter and fix it up, for then to get back into the fight or return to base? Nope, he'd limp back to base and get repairs there. Not going to just contend my self to fly around the battlefield in a smoking ship.
Then RTB. Rendezvous with a repair freighter. Form up with your flight leader, who'll repair your fighter (Canadiens' suggestion in the suggestions forum a long time ago, might be implemented one day). Plain and simple. In a teamwork setting you'll have freighters manned and your ships formed up in a fleet anyhow, so help wouldn't be four kilometers away in the first place. And flying all the way back to my hanger would be to dangerous as the enemy could easly pick me off. Would make much more since to land on the simi-nutral SPACESTATION right next to me.
Having actually played FS quite a bit, I can tell you that I'd much rather make a break for it and head home, watching my six all the way, than to do something as suicidal as park my fighter in the middle of the battleground. If I touched down on the outside of a space station (which very likely wouldn't even have a collision mesh for infantry if the devs didn't want me to get out of my fighter there), it'd take about five seconds for a hostile fighter to see my stationary starfighter and kill it and me. Any fighter in FS that is stationary or moving at slow speed is a sitting duck. Don't slow down unless you're sure no one can ambush you (if you're within range of a ship with scanners or whatever), and even then, realize that you do it at great risk. FS experience has taught me never to slow down, and the only time I stop my fighter is when providing close escort of cap ships or freighters, or when rearming or reloading.
"One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage."
--the awesomeness that is Boatmurdered.
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