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Posts: 15 to 21 of 32
- From: Grong, Norway
- Registered: 2006-07-25
- Posts: 5,192
Re: Advice on Server Map Rotation
If the tards who quit the space maps stay in, they would be over with very fast -
Indeed. For the longest time I didn't like Mos Entha - I was horrible at it, it degenerated into flag hopping, and frankly I didn't think it was too pretty, but you know what? I didn't sit the whole round, or two rounds, whining ("OMG Space maps sux") or spamming votes as often as I could while filling the chat channels with "vote yes!", "Page up!", "Vote yes so we can end this stupid map", etc. I stayed on the server. And you know what? I eventually learned to like it. Especially when I turned on Lighting and Dynamic Lighting and realized it wasn't so bland after all. If people did the same thing with space maps, stayed the course and played them without whining... space maps would be more fun, and people would learn to like them. I believe people dont like space maps because they are repetitive and quite shallow
They are quite shallow, I agree with that. Hopefully with time more depth will be added. I myself, as do many others, I'm sure, have tons of ideas on how to make it deeper and more strategic and open-ended. As for it being repetitive, that's probably a valid argument, too.
"One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage." --the awesomeness that is Boatmurdered.
- Registered: 2006-10-10
- Posts: 333
Re: Advice on Server Map Rotation
Hello Bandu and thank you for your suggestions. As with all games everyone has their preferences. We see this on BF2142, where some don't like titan maps and other people don't like vehicle maps. We won't change our current setup untill more maps arrive. We have voted upon and discussed these maps in our serverlist. When our server is running we do see people leave when space maps arrive, but that just makes room for people that do like them. So the server keeps a constant number of people on it. Agreeing on this will be very difficult indeed, untill then we will keep our current map list. Other server admins might want to change theirs.
17 Reply by Bandu 2008-09-15 11:50:49 (edited by Bandu 2008-09-15 12:07:02)
- Bandu
- Ron Paul for Prez!
- Offline
- From: Manchester , UK
- Registered: 2006-01-15
- Posts: 5,867
Re: Advice on Server Map Rotation
Safe-Keeper wrote:If you put four space maps in a row, they'll empty the server and Escape from Hoth and Convoy Raid simply won't be played. I think you know that quite well. If you insist on having four space maps in a row, you might as well just remove all but one of them altogether .
Which is tragic, but no reason to ruin them for the rest of us.
I think I dont, and anyway...I care little. Im not asking for every server to do this. Just one that has the balls to try it. Im not saying categorically that it will go perfectly well, but there are enough good points for me to suspect that it will mean the server will have more players, for a longer, more sustained, period of time. I dont see how that constitutes me wanting to wreck it for the "rest". RSF Angel wrote:You're probably right.. people who don't like space maps are likely shallow and repetitive.
As has been said- if people are open enough to stay around for some space combat, the maps not only take less time to declare a winner but are more fun. Space only becomes a drag when everyone runs away from a situation where standard FPS tactics won't carry the day (camp, snipe, spam grenades/prox mines...)
Good arguments.... 1. People should stay around doing something they don't like for your benefit. - Ok! Did you used to run a cotton field , by any chance?  2. "camp, snipe, spam grenades/prox mines..." . - Bring up frowned upon tactics , whilst ignoring the positive tactics. Nice tactic  Twigs wrote:There are maps I hate, maps I love, but I dont leave a server when a map i dont like comes along, why empty a populated server for no reason other than a map you dont like is on. Seems rather silly to me, when half those people that leave dont start another server (thereby helping kickstart other servers and keep the mod going), then the upcoming infantry map takes a while to repopulate again.
You cant setup a mod, or anything, hoping to keep it going by people doing things they don't want, or like, to do. Some may have a) better things to do than sit on a server for ages hopin to populate it, esp. considering the small-ish community at hand, or b) a less selfless nature than others. I actually jumped on DSGaming last night and then minimized back to desktop to do other things, problem with DS tho is that you get booted for being idle, so hoping to getting it started without being bored out of you mind is difficult. Safe-Keeper wrote:If the tards who quit the space maps stay in, they would be over with very fast -
Indeed. For the longest time I didn't like Mos Entha - I was horrible at it, it degenerated into flag hopping, and frankly I didn't think it was too pretty, but you know what? I didn't sit the whole round, or two rounds, whining ("OMG Space maps sux") or spamming votes as often as I could while filling the chat channels with "vote yes!", "Page up!", "Vote yes so we can end this stupid map", etc. I stayed on the server. And you know what? I eventually learned to like it. Especially when I turned on Lighting and Dynamic Lighting and realized it wasn't so bland after all. If people did the same thing with space maps, stayed the course and played them without whining... space maps would be more fun, and people would learn to like them. I believe people dont like space maps because they are repetitive and quite shallow
They are quite shallow, I agree with that. Hopefully with time more depth will be added. I myself, as do many others, I'm sure, have tons of ideas on how to make it deeper and more strategic and open-ended. As for it being repetitive, that's probably a valid argument, too.
Well that is nice for you, but it is just wishful thinking to suggest that, a year after the mod has been released, people will suddenly learn to love space  One of the main things is they drag on too long. Jumping in a fighter and flying at a tower or gallofree can only hold the majority of people for so long (they last even too long for the "selfless ground pounders" ) . Like I said Taloraan is a different matter due to the (potential) tactics involved. <RT> Jimwalker-NL wrote:Hello Bandu and thank you for your suggestions.
We won't change our current setup untill more maps arrive. We have voted upon and discussed these maps in our serverlist. When our server is running we do see people leave when space maps arrive, but that just makes room for people that do like them. So the server keeps a constant number of people on it. Agreeing on this will be very difficult indeed, untill then we will keep our current map list. Other server admins might want to change theirs.
I made this thread really for everyone but RT . I know how set in your ways you "RTer's" are  I would suggest mixing up the ground maps tho. I think it is your server that has the 2 Endor maps together. May be wrong tho. ****************************************** I knew that before I posted this thread that Id get the few hardcore community members jump in and "big up" space. Im not here to kill space maps - otherwise I would be trying to get ground only servers, initially (that is plan B ). Space can be fun(well atleast Taloraan) , I am not slagging space off. Just stating the facts that the majority of players like infantry more than space (player counts regularly dropping from around 18 to 6, when space rears its head, you can not escape from) and trying to figure a way to improve things, rather than just hoping it will get better.
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavours to live at the expense of everybody else." Frédéric Bastiat
- Registered: 2007-09-30
- Posts: 1,058
Re: Advice on Server Map Rotation
honestly i think convoy raid is terrible map and should be ditched. other space maps can be fun with lots of good people. Also i should say that its the duty of experienced players to get to those gallofrees first. Dont let new people control them.
 Occupation: Hacker on steroids INGAME NAME: btcc
- From: Grong, Norway
- Registered: 2006-07-25
- Posts: 5,192
Re: Advice on Server Map Rotation
The "problem" with space is that they require teamwork. Without teamwork, it's just spawn, fly at your target, get shot down, rinse and repeat, and of course that gets boring. Mos Espa, too, would quickly get boring if that's what everyone did - flung themselves at Slave Quarters and Junkyard one at a time, got a few shots off, died at the hands of pre-placed turrets and a squad of enemies, and did the same thing over again. But once you've got squads formed and people actually stay together, they're fantastic. Yavin wouldn't "drag out so long" if the Rebels actually employed strategy and tactics to win. And yes, I do indeed believe people can be taught this. If we throw Community Games and get some teamwork going on space maps with 30-60 people on, players will eventually realize that, hey, there is something to be found here, and the more people we got to realize that, the better space would be. Im not here to kill space maps - otherwise I would be trying to get ground only servers, initially (that is plan B wink ).
Good thing you have a plan b, 'cause your plan a will very likely fail . 1. Taloraan loads up, player count maybe drops to 6, as you predict. 2. EfH loads up, people have no fun since only 6 people are on, more disappear. Map votes get spammed, but you know as well as me that those are totally unpredictable. 3. You're left with an empty server for hours.
"One of the bitches actually gave birth while she was attacking, and her puppies joined in on the carnage." --the awesomeness that is Boatmurdered.
- From: So. Cal.
- Registered: 2008-09-05
- Posts: 43
Re: Advice on Server Map Rotation
I am sure that I will catch some heat from some of you, but let me give you an outsider's perspective on this. We have been running ranked servers inf BF2142 for almost two years and for about the last year have had the highest ranked 32 man Gibraltar server in the game. (Yes it is one of those 24/7 servers that many hate because it is the same, but many more love because the map is great.) The thing i see is that the maps are great, most of them anyway, and it is a fresh change after the countless hours I have in BF2142. However, trying to get players to play the maps for the "full experience," or thinking that the community will grow by marketing the "Stars Wars" experience will only help so much. While many of us in NfB like Star Wars, we have some that have started playing the mod that don't like Star Wars. However, after hearing us talk about it, they gave it a try and enjoyed it because it is a great mod, not because they are Star Wars fans. The maps are great, the weapons and gadgets are great, etc... That being said, we have some maps that we really like the feel of and others that we don't so much. This is the same for BF2142, and while there are some fantastic maps in that game, trying to run a server that stays populated while running all, or even most of the maps is nigh impossible. I see this mod the same way. Most players are going to stay in your server for anywhere from 2-3 hours at a time, which is never enough to go through all the maps. So, the way I see it from a server owner's perspective, is that you choose the most popular maps and those are the ones you run, and sadly that means some maps are left out. I know from the feedback we are getting, the Endor maps are great, along with Bestine, Rhen Var Reasearch, and Ryloth. Taloraan is okay, but most players aren't looking for that "Chess Match in Space" where you are trying to maneuver everything just right. For a clan battle, maybe, but for a pub server, not so much. Yavin crashes many of us to desktop, and we still haven't been able to figure out why Mos Entha resets our server. I'm sure that won't be popular with some of you that are hard core here, but we aren't looking for the total experience, but to have some fun with the mod. That means fun maps, with fun battles, and if we don't play all the maps, oh well. We are trying to pull more people in, and it won't happen by getting them to play maps they don't like. So, we'll be running the ones that we like, and not the one's we don't and hopefully we'll be successful in bringing more people into the mod.
- From: Aberdeen, Scotland
- Registered: 2008-06-24
- Posts: 1,926
Re: Advice on Server Map Rotation
Thanks Bandu for bringing this discusion about a possible mapchange of the DSServer to the forums. Anyone who doesnt agree with Bandu's list should feel free to make anotherone. As was stated at the start of the thread, it would be nice to have different types of map (Personally I would prefer infantry-Combinedarms-space) along with different environments. Perhaps if all servers run a different varation of whatever turns out to be the most balanced and fun list, then we could possibly add alot of fun to the mod, an dencouragement to populate more than one server at a time.
BlackIntel Game Leader DUKE815: Teamwork's complicated. I've found that ramming a Lambda with a Y-wing at full boost is most effective.
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